Why Would a Girl Even Want to Learn Talmud?

Wolf, an eclipse doesn’t accur at every Molad. There is also a 5 degree deviance to take into account.

That’s absolutely correct. However, when an eclipse does happen, it can only happen at the molad.

That’s why eclipses are important for the ancients in determining the length of a lunar month. You can’t tell when the molad actually happens — the moon is usually not visible for hours (or even a day) after the conjunction. The only way to know *for certain* when a conjunction happens is by viewing a solar eclipse. Without an eclipse, you don’t know for certain which when the conjunction occurred.

The Wolf

Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you are questioning Chazal. If so, why are you trying to put yourself in the Orthodox world where we hold the words of Chazal dear?

notasheep, I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Can you clarify?

From the moment you asked earlier why the boys would look at the girls but the girls wouldn’t look at the boys, I realized that you obviously don’t know the differences between boys and girls, so I realized it was pointless to debate the subject.

You also said you were intelligent. Yeah, no. You took something I said, put your own explanation into it, and then insulted me for saying something which you said.

I suggested (somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as was clear from the context) not to learn certain Masechtos. Learning in-depth about blood stains, the obligations a woman has to her husband, the very graphic descriptions and logical analyses of hara’ah, neshikas ha’ever, shelo k’darkah … (need I say more?) may offend your somewhat feminist, or at least feminine, self.

You somehow decided that I meant that this was the reason Chazal said women shouldn’t learn Gemara, even though I specifically gave completely different explanations previously, and gave no indication whatsoever that this was what I meant.

Also, if you’re frustrated/mad/upset/angry with the Bais Yakov system for teaching you to be Jewish for the “wrong reasons”, look at the Rambam in Hilchos Teshuva 10:5 where you’ll see that they were 100% correct.

Halevai we should all live up to our roles that Hashem gave us and not kriech in himmel for things that have no shaychis to us.

“You also said you were intelligent. Yeah, no.”

See http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rules-of-the-ywn-coffee-room-please-read#post-32914, specifically the following:

“The purpose of the Coffee Room is to be a place where people can come and talk about all different topics and express their opinion in a polite, respectable manner.”

BYM’s last line shows me that she was tongue-in-cheek or sarcastic or whatever in the first paragraph. Her tone of voice shows that she is sick and tired of the attacks she is getting. Some people didn’t get it.

From now on please mark your sarcasm. XML tags are quite helpful – like this: <sarcasm> sarcastic words here </sarcasm>

To bais yakov maidel:

Also, if you’re interested in more advanced, logical, and analytical hashkafa check out hashkafacircle.com

Probably different than what you’ve been exposed to.

There really are a lot of deeper and more advanced hashkafa works available but they’re not popular in Charedi circles. One of the most famous is Halachic Man by Rav Joseph Dov Soloveitchik; it’s available in English and would appeal to someone with a background in philosophy. Based on your description of what’s bothering you I would suggest reading this book – it’s available from Amazon.

“As an aside the belief that women were intellectually inferior was near universal in the times of Chazal so it doesn’t detract from them that they believed that to be the case.”

According to the Rambam, most women don’t have their intellect focused (ein daatan mechuvanot IIRC) as a man would. He does not say that most women don’t have the ability, but rather, as I would put it, most just don’t have the desire to focus and stay focused. From what I see, BYM does have it.

I remember learning Ketubot with my wife a number of years ago (before kids). I was quite impressed with a question that she brought up after we learned the Gemara and Rashi on the sugya. It was Tosfot’s question.

BYM, I wish you much hatslacha in learning !

The gemara in Niddah says that many women at that time were very learned in those areas, and that they consulted with each other and even decided halachah. Essentially there is a talmudic precedent for the modern institution of the Yoetzet Halachah.

Not quite. It says that a certain woman told Rav Yitzchok that his father, Rav Yehuda, was mattir that particular type of condition, and the Gemara discusses if you can take her word.

We also recently saw in Daf Yomi that the single person who was cited as THE example of a top gemara learner was — Beruriah.

Or at least as someone who tried to master a lot but didn’t complete it, as the one telling the anecdote seemingly did.

I find it hilarious that scientifically it is a proven fact that women are different then men in every level.

The bodies of Men and Women are completley different (unless it becomes commen for men to give birth and nurse.

Emotianally Men and Women are different.

In fact Men and women speak differently.

Ask any Marketing Expert if it would be a good idea to market a product the exact same way to Men and Woman.

And yet for some reason when Chazal lay out how the religous obligations for a man and woman are different and in fact thei “tachlis hachayim” is different some people are askance.

Silly.

JF, you want clarification. Just for the record, how old are you and are you married yet? Cause that will make a big difference whether or not you get what I am saying. This is an example of the way a woman functions on a daily basis:

Wakes up in the morning, puts on a load of laundry, goes to wake up the kids, goes downstairs and prepares breakfast/lunches/snacks, goes back upstairs, gets dressed, makes sure kids are getting dressed, feeds the baby, serves breakfast, dresses toddler who can’t quite manage himself, checks on laundry, maybe eats breakfast but usually not, realises the time and rushes everyone out to school. Takes the opportunity to do some shopping, comes home, dumps shopping on kitchen table, sorts laundry and puts it in the dryer – another load goes in the machine. Baby’s due a feed, notices some papers that should have been tidied away last night. Back to kitchen, start preparing supper, chops some onions, notices the unpacked shopping, puts it away whilst onions are frying, phone rings, pick it up and talk to mother/mother-in-law/sister/friend whilst holding baby in one hand and stirring onions in the pot with another…

The rest of the day is pretty much the same. We multitask, start with a job and then start something else once that is underway, then the next and somehow everything gets done (usually) by the end of the day.

Men, on the other hand, can ONLY really concentrate on one job at a time. If they are on the phone, everything else has to stop (my husband cannot do anything whilst he is on the phone). When it comes to cooking in the kitchen (if they can, I am blessed in that area) they cannot divide their time between loads of different things cooking whilst trying to see to the kids at the same time.

Men need this focus and one-track mind in order to learn gemara. The way a woman divides her time and focus means that we would find it harder to sit down and concentrate on a gemara for any significant length of time.

>Her most recent post was in June of 2015.<

I’m waiting for litvishe chossid to tell us all what I would say as to him its old news 😜

As lc didn’t do it for me here goes :

What the op describes is exactly why the Rebbe advocated girls learning in general, above what they need to know, which if a man would know all halacha etc that a woman needs to know, he’d be a gaOn –

But aside for that the Rebbe advocated all higher education for women because of the spiritual danger involved otherwise :

In the times past, a Jewish woman imbibed all her knowledge and yiras shomayim from the home – and it was great.

But today women and girls are fully educated in the secular subject, and they can mistakenly conclude that Yiddishkeit can’t match it cvs. So we must educate them up to par.

In the past, it was dangerous to teach such things to girls, because by nature, girls go with more emuna, and less daas, so why teach them questions and then maybe they won’t get the answers and they’ll have questions on Yiddishkeit for no reason.

It could cause harm and unnecessary so why do it?

But today, we are taught to question in the science classes etc, so aderabe women must be taught everything.

Sorry, got cut off.

Would the Rebbe advocate girls learn gemarah? Because times changed?

Chabadshlucha: I was under the impression that Chabad girls learn Gemara but mainly through Ein Yaakov, as the Rebbe specifically suggested. Is this correct, or do girls today actually learn Gemara as boys do, focusing on its halachic discussions as well?

I couldn’t get through all the posts here. But I just want to say that I very much resonate with bais yakov maidel. I am a very intellectually honest person, despite all the attempts of our culture to squish that in me. And I realized soon after getting out of BY system that I am really ignorant in Judasim . My years in school and seminaries have been largely a waste. I have not been able to invest much time in study since then, since I am a mother of many young children bh. And I feel a real void. But everything that keeps me on track is what I learned on my own, outside of the Bais Yakov system, and definitely it is nothing coming from the “Yeshivish world”. Judaism has always evolved with the times, and all the different opinions from different eras that have been passed down to us reflect the time and place in which they originated. People here have been quoting the Rambam. The Rambam also writes in his Mishne Torah that a man can beat his wife with a stick (he may need permission of Bais Din, unclear from text) if she refuses to wash his feet or make his bed. Some things from a different era just can’t work today, and some things that work for general klal can’t work for individual people. And the stubborn ideology that an opinion of a particular Rav, or a chumrah accepted by a specific community is more important than well being of a Jew, or unity of the Jewish people is destroying us.

Lastly for now, if you have questions or want to understand the prufundity and glance at the sheer intellectual depth, complexity yet unity within Torah, and logical understandings, I would suggest you learn Chassidus, starting with the second part of Tanya, shaar hayichud vhoemuna. What’s amazing about it is that it doesn’t only make sense but it resonates within.

Another perk is that Chassidus quotes and brings together all parts of Torah – and that’s actually where I have at least half of my knowledge of gemara from. So you can get two in one 🙂 with the inner meaning with it.

Like try learning the story of rabba shechting Rav Zeira on Purim one year, reviving him the next day through davening, and then not only NOT doing teshuva for slaughtering someone, but cheerfully offering to do it again the next year. (R’ Zeira respectfully declines because miracles don’t happen every time.)
And these are our holy Tanaim! Learning the plain story can leave you riddled with questions. But it’s such a geshmake story when learned with Chassidus. And that’s how I learned this story in the gemara!

If you have any specific questions, since you can’t call me by phone, feel free to ask here and we’ll all address your questions.

This would conclude my answer to the op 🙂

“Women talk to each other as equals”
Hilarious.