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I have heard that men and women are not equal in Judaism, but both play different and very important role. But it still bothers me. I have heard that the woman don’t need to wear kippa, tzitzit, or have brit milah because they are born on a higher spiritual level than men. Why?? Why should they be born closer to Hashem? Why should women in Judaism be better off than men?
A woman is by nature more emotional/spiritual so there is a closeness to hashem, a man on the other hand needs action to make him think thats why he needs to actively do mitzvas to bring him close to hashem.
First time I heard that complaint!
Emotional/spiritual?
Why is a tree not a cow? Why the inequality??
I agree with tro11. I think the whole ‘women are closer to Hashem’ thing was said by people to justify Judaism against attacks by feminism, but they cut off their nose to spite their face (I’m sure there’s a more appropriate adage I just can’t think of it). Either way I don’t believe it.
Because Hashem created men and women differently and he gave each their own set of mitzvos pertaining to their gender as well as mitzvos for ALL to follow. The mitzvos he gave each gender pertain to their particular weaknesses and strengths and what HE made them capable of. Why do women bare the children and the men never have to feel the pain of childbirth? Because of Chava’s sin. With that comes a whole set of mitzvos pertaining only to women. Men have the mitzvo of bris and that is obviously something women can’t do.
Judaism did not separate the genders Hashem did, and the laws he gave us are designed to serve HIM to the best of OUR abilities.
why should it bother you that men have different roles than women? They are both human beings, but they each have their specific role. What exactly bothers you? Wouldn’t a woman putting on tzitzit be almost absurd if that was not her intended role?
Men and women are so different that discrimination shouldn’t even be an issue. Men have certain roles to perform in the world and women have their role to perform. Men have extra mitzvos that women don’t and women have mitzvos that men don’t have.
It’s not inequality if it’s impossible for the two sides to be equal.
I think I’m getting a nevuah….. I see this topic being closed veeeery soon.
Ctrl Alt: Are you sure it is a nevuah and not a cholem?
The topic was started by a TROLL. What’s better and apple or an orange? I could make a case for each. Men are not better than women, women are not better than men. We are each designed and assigned for differing roles in life. Women need fewer mitzvos than their male counterparts, to attain the same level of kedusha as men, because THAT IS HOW HASHEM DECIDED IT SHOULD BE. There is no need for argument about this, it is what it is. As a woman, when I say She-asani Kirtzono each day, I really mean it.
If you would be a Chacham rather than a Navi, you would 1gnore a troll.
That’s different – a tree is not a cow. But men and women are both human beings and should be treated equally.
I think trees and cows are the same because they’re both organic.
Ever read “Animal Farm” by George Orwell? He wrote, “All men are equal. Some are more equal than others.” That’s life!
The topic was started by a TROLL.
Good point.
All men are equal.
And all women are Splenda?
Perhaps it bothers you because you have bought into the beautiful sounding but totally false notion that “all men (and women) are created equal”. Although it is true that we have a responsibility to respect every individual as being created in the image of Hashem, people are not created equally. Some are smart, some are not, some are beautiful, some the reverse, some are strong, talented, rich, etc. Even from a spiritual perspective, some people are born into a frum family, some are not, some receive good chinuch, some don’t — the point is that we believe each person has a role in this world, and Hashem puts you in the situation you need to be in to accomplish that role. Part of the profile is whether you are a male or female. Men and women are different biologically, and in many other ways as well, and Hashem, who created us this way mapped out the path each gender must take to fulfill his will and hopefully achieve an eternity of dveikus bahashem!
This is not a contest as to which gender is “more spiritual”, and “more spirituality” is not even the goal! The goal is to do what Hashem wants from you, and to believe that you are created in the way that fits your role. (Just as you should theoretically believe when coming across someone with more of any other desirable quality.)
Bottom line, this isn’t about how anyone is “treated” — it’s about each individual doing what they have to do. (And yes, I would use this argument in non-spiritual things as well. Do we say it’s not fair that some people get to be lawyers and make lots of money while some flip burgers for minimum wage, let’s take turns and give everyone a chance to be a doctor, lawyer, etc.? After all, how can you discriminate against someone who may have been born with less of a particular skill?)
There are no extra mitzvos for women over men.
Also I don’t think a woman attains the same Kedusha as a man doing mitzvos, learning Torah, its just not her Tafkid. Kedusha attained through mitzvos can only be done doing them – ??? ????? ???????. Also ???? ?? ???? ???????. That why men say ??? ???? ??? the privilege to do mitzvos. A lady doesn’t say ??? ???? ???! Just ????? ?????? to do Ratzon HaShem. Just as men don’t have child rearing pains and tribulations, women don’t have, and cannot understand nisyonos and temptations a man has. That is Kedusha – ??? ???? – ???? ?????. So while it’s easier for a woman to fulfill her role and MOST DO – a man who fulfills his tafkid, ????, ????, ????? ????? – that is truly rewarding.
Dont be such a grouch. We already have a grouch thread!! 🙂
Yes women have it ‘easier’ to attain a high level of kedusha as you say. But how many men do you know who would rather be a woman, busy at home and with all the responsibilities that goes with that. I know plenty women who would prefer the much more ‘exciting’ life of a man, especially at times like purim, simchas torah, in fact every shabbos and yomtov even for the litvish and esp for the chassidish, but overall really for every man every day of the year with minyanim, aliyos, socialising etc. Most women by comparison have a quieter, duller life. So yes a man has it harder but more enjoyable and women are higher without the wonderful things that make a man shteig.
All things being equal, women get to keep all their body parts after birth 🙂
Women need that extra boost of kedusha that they are born with. They wouldn’t be able to survive spiritually with out it. Think about if a man would be able to make it with out going to minyan for 25 yrs in their life. A woman generaly doesn’t go to shul when she has children at home. Even on the yomim no’raim she is lucky if she goes for a few mins. A woman has built in kochos that instill in her the kedusha that she doesn’t get from the sources men do.
Who is the inventor of the New Judaism? I’m seeing Chidushim here that Chazal never thought of?
All things being equal, women get to keep all their body parts after birth
I can’t say it with 100% conviction but I’m fairly certain I’ve kept all my body parts after my wife has given birth too.
Really thought, why is someone who takes the name tro11 and explains how he makes the brachos the he wants to make rather that what he is obligated to make being taken seriously.
The teva of men is such that we NEED more discipline, more rules than women do.
Look at the goyish (and, r’l- the Jewish) world and see who commits more crimes – men or women?
Like I said, we NEED more discipline.
troll: See, if you’d allow your wife would buy you a birthday gift, you’d stop being envious of her
SJS- not in all religions…..
tro11,
A man who says “sheasani kirtzono” should consider saying “she’eini oseh ritzono”.
Charlie: fact is Kohaninm are spiritually superior to Yisroelim! And there is good reason for it. Still, “mamzer talmid chochom, kodem l’kohen am ha’aretz”
Charlie,
The other way around. A Yisroel is so much higher than a Cohen, and that’s why he doesn’t need all those Mitzvos.
Who’s ‘we’ white man?
Truth,
They are not actually spiritually higher; they have a position as representing something more spiritual. This comes with responsibility as well as some benefits. The fact that they have more Mitzvos does give them more chances to keep Mitzvos.
Why are there frogs and sheep; couldn’t there be only bees?
Daas: Perfect answer!
tro11,
I can’t tell you whether or not it’s a bracha l’vatala to say a bracha which you don’t mean. I can tell you with certainty that saying a bracha which chaza’l did not institute IS a bracha l’vatala.
I can only advise you to work on yourself so that you can accept chaza’l as wiser than yourself and say the proper bracha with the proper intent.
I appreciate the compliment, but if it’s cute, that’s incidental. More importantly, it’s true.
- Thanks, ItcheSrulik.
In what way, exactly, do you feel inferior? You are obviously the first to feel so. Therefore, please explain. Do you feel that having more Mitzvos is an inferior status?
The reasons for the Bracha of Shelo Asani Isha are:
1: We have more Mitzvos.
2: Women have a harder time in the world; they are often taken advantage of, they have to be much more carefull from evil doers, most attacks are against women, and they are usually physically weaker which helps facilitate most of the above.
Which one are you jealous of? No one is created with checks on their chart. Some are born with more to accomplish, which, as mentioned earlier, is a privilege and a duty. There is a greater possibility to stray, as a man, as well as to accomplish.
Btw, 2012 is the year and nobody made that up. Y0u 5pe11ed a word.
HaLeiVi:
Truth,
They are not actually spiritually higher
What’s your basis for this. They are indeed on higher spiritual level, in certain aspects. again, even a mamzer, who is most certainly on lower spiritual level, can obtain a loftier spiritual level, if he becomes a talmid chochom. That does not change the kohens loftier spiritual level in other areas.
He told him to be certain not to allow opportunities to slip by, for they can benefit him and his decedents forever.
HaLeivi,
Everyone knows men are inferior to women 🙂
i find it hilarious that youre all indulging someone named troll 😀
Your story only indicates that in the merit of the deeds of his grandfather, a person inherited Kehuna. Nobody is born a better person. We are supposed to honor the Kehuna, not because this Cohen is a better person than you.
Please define better and spirtual
why do we have Army and navy? cant we all be air force?
There are many units in hashems army but one mission; to serve him and do his will!
“Charlie is 100% correct.”
What happened to my comment?
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