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“but much of this thread seems to be posts from Ashkenazim who want to make themselves feel righteous for defending the kavod of Sephardim.”
I dont see much in the way of defending kavod sefardim in this this thread. Looks to me like there is much in the way of defending the kavod of two decidely non sefardic communities from the vitriol of someone hell bent on sowing seeds of divisiveness under the guise of defending the honor or the Rav Z’l.
Divrei zikaron and words of hisorerus were shared by Harav Yeruchem Olshin, Rosh Yeshiva of Beth Medrash Govoha; Harav Shmuel Choueka, Rov of Cong. Ohel Simcha in Deal, NJ; and Harav Mordechai Sutton, Rosh Kollel of Kollel Yechave Daat
Ferd: I don’t know why you would expect anything else from Joe.
Will there bhe any Hespedim for the public in Brooklyn?
It was acknowledged at my girls’ high school.
Finding references to the concept of quiet, Vayidom Aharon, Agra Dibei Tamya, Shtikusa Betrein, Halachos of not speaking first etc., doesn’t really address the issue we are discussing. This is a ritual of stopping what you are doing to pay respects in this manner. I don’t recall this concept anywhere in Yiddishkeit, and following outside rituals bumps with Chukos Hagoyim.
HaLeiVi: There is a T’shuvah in the Yaskil Avdi discussing this. I think in Chelek 4. I know R’ Schachter is very unhappy with the concept though. He thinks like you.
Yussel:His whole methodology was questionable.
His Yir’a and lack of agendae allowed us to hold our peace.
Ask those who know a thing or two
(I refrained from saying at first ,but you forced my hand)
Ferd
Your comments are as funny as your name 🙂
Rav Shachter (a family friend) can hardly be regarded as representative of YU
About Time: That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. No one represents YU if not R’ Schachter.
And your comment about R’ Ovadia’s methodology without a doubt qualifies as being Malig Al Divrei Chachamim and possibly bordering on Machchish Magideha. One can lose their Chelek in Olam Haba on a message board too.
He just didn’t effect the lives of the people in Monsey that much. He was a great talmud chacham but how does he effect people’s lives?
When Moshe Rabainu passed away he Did not get the same response as Aron Hacohen.
107.9 had the l’vayah live.
He was niftar about 6am eastern time. The l’vayah was about 5 hours later, which makes it 11a. If the l’vayah was here in the USA, there would be reason to perhaps stop learning and travel there but since it was in EY, what do you expect them to do, put up large speakers so everyone in Monsey/Lakewood could listen? The radio part, at least the part i heard online via 107.9 was BAD.
They gave better z’chusim for the niftar by sitting and learning than being m’vatel torah for all those hours.
Stop trying to look for problems!
Chacham shemes, bais medrasho batel. Nasi shemes, kol batei Medrash beteilin. Moed Katan 22. You couuld be melamed zchus, maybe they didn’t hold this to be ‘nasi’. Or maybe they did not hear in time. Or maybe beshita they hold its ‘everyman for himself’, Or we could be melamed chova, that batel could be just for a little time. They could have been yotze both ways with a moment of silence, at least learning in silence in recognition of the stinging tragedy that befell the Torah world of EY.
Why can’t they arrange a hesped in a few hours? We always arrange levayas on a few hours notice.
streekgeek: thanks for letting us know about the hespeidim in lakewood! I judged too quickly and shouldnt have!
adam12: i dont know why or how, but the news of the petirah of R’ Elyashiv spread amongst our community and there was a sadness in the air.
apashutayid: I was not parroting, but I will acknowledge that i did judge hastily. I was saddened to hear about the petirah and even more so that i didnt know about it sooner.
wallflower: I dont know why you had to bring up this whole idea of ashkenazim having some sort of ‘reverse affirmative action’. A yid is a yid is a yid. True, the sephardim have different minhagim than ashkenazim, but a tzaddik is a tzaddik is a tzaddik and it hurts to lose one of the last gedolim.
ferd: please tone down your posts! They seem to be full of animosity and they shouldnt be. You and I have judged to quickly and should be humbled by the amount of yeshivos and bais yaakov’s that have had hespedim and said tehillim for R’ Ovadia.
I apologize to anyone that was hurt by my comment on the previous page. I judged too quickly. Mi K’amcha Yisrael?!
Do they ever dedicate a sedar L’Nishmas someone?
They certainly could have dedicated a sedar or some hour of learning L’Nshmas Rav Yosef withou interupting any learning
zahavasdad- were you there? Maybe they did.
I know I did.
I am asking if it was done, I have no idea. But if it was not it could have be done
If I had wheels, I could have been a bicycle.
I’m in a state of avelut of sorts, myself.
He was the one of the only Haredi gedolim whose psakim I find to be grounded in a very sensible approach to halakha; instead of sowing the seeds of enmity through his psakim, his psakim sought to uphold the principle of kocha d’ hetera adif. His psakim on conversion, agunot, gelatin, bishul be shabbat, and so many other issues are obviously at odds with what most Haredim believe, but there was probably no bigger baki than Rav Ovadia, zt”l. We’re all the poorer now, and I for one will be making an effort to learn Yalkut Yosef every day, bli neder.
rebdoniel,
How can you say, “…whose psakim I find to be grounded in a very sensible approach…”??
Halacha depends on the poskim and the gedolim, not what YOU find.
“He just didn’t effect [sic] the lives of the people in Monsey that much. He was a great talmud [sic] chacham but how does he effect [sic] people’s lives?”
His psakim were and continue to be a tremendous part of our mesorah and halacha l’maaseh. My rav (who is Ashkenazi) said in class that there is not a single shiur he prepares for that he doesn’t look up R’ Ovadiah’s writings. It is a tremendous loss for Am Yisroel and if you keep halacha (even as an Ashkenazi), R’ Ovadiah has most certainly affected your life.
Aaron Chaim,
If you look at his approach, it is a very sensible one. Halakha can either be used in a way that emphasizes gevura, or in a way that reflects hesed, and the Sephardic tradition to which he was an heir most certainly was one of hesed.
Hesed, kocha d’hetera adif, and the emphasis of codified law over pilpul define the Sephardic approach in its purest glory, and there was no greater exponent of these principles in modern times than Hakham Ovadia.
reb doniel, u have a spelling mistake, you wrote kocha- its wrong! it sounds a little too jewish… big bad problem… you have to write kokha/koha… its a hesed to keep to the same things throughout so that people can understand them..
Monsey is too busy using “cattle prods” to be busy with Rav Ovadia Yosef zatzal.
Achosid,
I see you consider yourself knowledgeable on all things cattle prod related, considering how many posts you have written about them.
Why don’t you se what ?????? ?????? wrote about the matter.
BMG will be having hespeidim for Rav Ovadiah ZT”L tomorrow evening 6:30 in the Beren Dining Room
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