- This topic has 31 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 2 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
I’m curious – Americans who eat food under the OU in America come to E”Y, and suddenly the OU hechsher isn’t good enough for them here. I’m curious as to why that is. Any thoughts? (And yes, I know people who do this; I’m not making it up.)
To answer this question one has to know the hahgacha situation in EY which is totally different than here in the USA. It’s not simply “its good enough here” its not good enough there”. My children have explained it to me as that the OU in EY relies on certain kulos and other hashgachos on ingredients that are not as reliable.
OU is stricter in the US than in Israel.
Maybe in the palace of King they adhere to a higher standard.
Frummer than Thou
The OU in E”Y isn’t supervised properly. Why would a reliable restaurant in EY not use an Israeli Hechsher?
Sorry ZD it is not that simplistic. See my previous post in this thread. My shver’s aunt and uncle and family lived in EY. When my children spent time in EY my shvigger spoke to the cousins about uinviting my children.They told her that they didn’t think my children would eat in their house because of the hashgacha they relied upon is not acceptable in the yeshiva velt in EY.
In Israel, kashrus is completely different. There are considerations like sh’mittah, chadash, maaser, chillul Shabbos, etc. that don’t necessarily come up in America. That’s the actual answer.
Now that you have that to ignore, here’s the answer you actually wanted: because we’re dumb, crazy Chareidim and we think we’re so much better than you, but really we’re just crazy and stupid and can’t get over ourselves. Is that good?
papagaio has OU hashgakha. those who so quickly can be motzi laaz on the OU, can stand around and see who relies on the OU hashgaha. israeli hashgaha depends to a large extent on the competence of the mashgiach. In a particular hotel without hareidi hashgakhot but an expert masgiach you will see distinguished Jews who know enjoying dinner,
I have written to the OU about this. OU Israel is the same standard as OU Kosher in the US. With the added hallachos of EY. Standards in Israel are different overall, and kashrus preferences often include political considerations.
Tachlis, it’s the OU. Please stop with the motsi Shem rah.
“we’re dumb, crazy Chareidim and we think we’re so much better than you, but really we’re just crazy and stupid and can’t get over ourselves”
One of the few times I’ve agreed with Neville. Yes, that is an excellent explanation.
“If” OU standards in EY were lower or different than in the US, Do you really believe that the OU would say so?
“Tachlis, it’s the OU. Please stop with the motsi Shem rah.’
Please copy and paste one thing from this thread that you think was motzi shem rah about the OU. Nobody has said anything other than explaining that different halachos apply in the boundaries of Eretz Yisroel.
I was told by someone in the business that the only difference between mehadrin hechshers is the wrapper.Someone else claimed that there are specific chumrot that some groups have. However, anyone who will not eat in someone else’s house, especially parents, because of this is a chassid shotteh. This is typical of some people. They violate Torah mitzvot ben adam l’chaveiro for some chumra. Avraham Avinu, on the other hand, accepted gifts from Avimelech so that he could pay his debts to the hoteliers
““If” OU standards in EY were lower or different than in the US, Do you really believe that the OU would say so?”
They aren’t lower. It’s a meikel hechsher in the US as well, but the halachah is simple enough in the US that it doesn’t pose a problem for most people.For example, relying on heter mechirah is not something surprising and/or out-of-line for the OU to do. It’s exactly what you would expect them to do. In the US, non-modern people eat OU. In Israel, no non-modern people hold by the heter mechirah, and therefore would not eat the OU (btw, shmittah treifs dishes).
But, I’m not sure why I waste my energy. Comment’s like Avi’s just further prove that you guys only start these threads because of the inferiority complexes you MO folks all seem to have.
If you’re worried, do what I did: call the OU in US and get all your questions answered and all the information you need. I was satisfied after speaking to a Kashrus supervisor & I eat OU glatt here.
For example, relying on heter mechirah is not something surprising and/or out-of-line for the OU to do.
This is false. They don’t.
jdb it’s not motzei shem ra. No normal yeshiva in israel would recommend relying on the OU in Israel.
Newsflash: people in the U.S. avoid OU restaurants as well.
the obviously modern people looking to bash chareidim here are ridiculous. the people who dont eat ou dont do it because their rebbeim tell them not to and thats it. theres so much more to look out for in eretz yisroel and to say that we just want to look frummer is ridiculous. i had rebbeim that checked out rabbinut meats and it came out they were suffek treif, am i a chossid shoita if i dont eat by parents house when they serve it? or am i just keeping kosher? where do you draw the line. “we’re dumb, crazy Chareidim and we think we’re so much better than you, but really we’re just crazy and stupid and can’t get over ourselves” so, GadolHadorah, Rav Chaim Kanievsky is dumb and crazy? Rav Gershon Edelstein is dumb and crazy? the rabbonim who tell us we cant eat certain hecsherim are dumb and crazy? who should i follow instead, HaGaon HaRav Avi K shlit”a? geeze you guys are nuts.
Neville, FYI the OU does not rely on the heter mechira as Rav Soloveichik opposed it. BTW, both Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Rav Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg said that it like any other heter. I do not though understand your reaction to my comment. Perhaps you are one of those chassidim shottim.
” kashrus preferences often include political considerations.”
this is not unique to e’y
To imply that OU Israel is not reliable is motsi Shem rah. To suggest that they accept Heter Mechirah is motsi Shem rah. I have a neighbor who is a mashgiach for the Rabbanut that won’t allow OU products into his home. We have discussed this at length. The rumors he has heard about OU Israel and for that matter, OU would be laughable to anyone that knows the world class organization they run.
The top hashgachos in Israel often maintain standards well beyond what one is accustomed to seeing in the US. But to suggest that OU in the US is acceptable but in Israel they are not is often ignorance or politics.
I have discussed this behind closed doors with leading Yeshivish rabbonim. For example, when I made Aliyah I sat with my Rosh Yeshiva to ask him what standards I should keep. Behind closed doors, he said amazing things about many hashgachos, but he also doesn’t bring them into his home because he wants neighbors to be comfortable eating in his home.
Please do not confuse the issues. There is a reality, and there are rumors and hearsay. Don’t jump to conclusions without doing your own research.
I am confused. On what products or restaurants does the OU give a hechsher in EY? My understanding was that it was an American organization and the products that are brought to EY get a stamp from Israeli Rabbanut in addition.
The OU in Israel might have good standards but if a restaurant in Israel uses the OU, it’s a red flag.
“To imply that OU Israel is not reliable is motsi Shem rah.”
Your insecurity is laughable. Would it be motzi shem rah for me to say the Triangle K is not reliable?
Of course not. Your definition of “motzi shem ra” is “anyone who disagrees with my MO shittah and makes me feel inferior.” Pathetic.
NC
” Comment’s like Avi’s just further prove that you guys only start these threads because of the inferiority complexes you MO folks all seem to have.”
I do agree about Avi’s strange inferiority complex, but your comments only serve to worsen it, as it is built on a blatant dishonesty. You say “For example, relying on heter mechirah is not something surprising and/or out-of-line for the OU to do.” Yet a quick google search shows “Though many great Rabbis advocated in favor of this sale (known as the Heter Mechira), other great Rabbis stood in strong opposition, and the OU sides with the stringent opinion when endorsing Israeli produce. ” From the OU’s website.
Thus if your answer to the question “Why do some Americans not eat the OU hechsher in E”Y?” is because they rely on the heter mechira. then its fair to conclude your opposition isnt grounded in fact.
I
An American organization on Israel that doesn’t o serve the laws of shmittah is a problem
Tomorrow at noon the Star-K ‘s monthly webinar topic is TRAVELING TO ISRAEL- KASHRUS, HALACHA, AND PRACTICAL ADVICE.
I dont understand what is the discussion here. If I eat fruit by the foot in New York, I will still eat it when in Israel. Why would the product all of a sudden become treif while travelling over the atlantic??? So, yes, any product with an ou that I would eat in the USA, I would eat in Israel as well if I find it being sold in one of these amreicanised supermarkets. But if I would find a resaurant with an ou, I would definitely NOT eat in that resaurant, for the same reason i wouldnt eat if I would find a restaurant in Manhattan with an hashgacha of Badatz Rabbi Rubin for example. And why is that? Simple. When such a scenario happens, it should turn on an alarm, Why is the owner of this shop taking an ahsahgacha from an organisation based 6000 miles away, when he has an abundance of local hechsheirim to choose from???
bump
lakewhut, you write: “jdb it’s not motzei shem ra. No normal yeshiva in israel would recommend relying on the OU in Israel.” your definition of normal is crazy. i refuse to eat from the eidah given their anti-zionist stand. i eat from the agudah at Sheyan and the OU at Papagayo and many israeli hashgachot. the israeli hashgachot have much to learn from OU procedures. hotels run by frum but disorganized mashgichim, including some heimeshe hotels, cannot be trusted.
Dr. Todd said “hotels run by frum but disorganized mashgichim, including some heimeshe hotels, cannot be trusted.”
Very true. I worked for a popular north jersey bakery many years ago, goyish owned with a mashgiach, and while they were quite careful about keeping kosher, the mashgiach was not kosher at all (ate cheeseburgers) and found it amusing. I was young and afraid to say anything though it bothers me now.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.