Why do people think they could “trust themselves” with smartphones?

I was in Jackson Hole July 4th time, it was pretty warm and the whole town smelled of cooking Beef

Some BT’s do have a problem getting a Taavah for something they can no longer eat

Ask an FFB about Lobster and ask a BT about it. An FFB would likely be repulsed by it, but a BT might have a problem if he smelled one

I’m sure you would agree that despite someone having a taavah for it, it would still be assur.

I’m not sure why that part of the analogy to a smartphone doesn’t work for you. Whatever the rabbonim feel about smartphones (assur, unwise, only filtered, etc.) shouldn’t be affected by the fact that people have them, the same way lobster isn’t muttar for a BT.

zahavasdad,

“it is a bigger mitzvah to eat Kosher if you are tempted not to, than if you are repulsed by a non-kosher food item.”

Yes, but the ideal goal is to then train oneself to the point where there is no longer a temptation. Overcoming trials in service of Hashem is definitely among the most praiseworthy things a person can do, but your statement painted a picture of a BT as a person one sniff away from potentially sinning or going OTD.

Well i dont know about that. Lifnie iveir??? He shouldnt be a rav?

No, we certainly don’t trust ourselves with lashon hara! Hence the laws against avak
lashon hara, living in a place where lashon hara is rampant, hearing others speak it, etc.

Some of those laws are definitely for other reasons. For example,
listening to someone else speak lasho hara is a violation of lifnei iver.

The bottom line is the world is changing rapidly to an exclusively electronic/online mode of communications and commercial interaction. Paper documents and cash will be stuff you see in a museum. You will need a smart phone for basic life functions from purchasing a container of milk, reviewing resumes from a shadchan, making an airline reservation, paying the bus-fare or communicating with first responders.

Meanwhile, many can manage without it and avoid the dangers. Daya l’tzara b’shaata.

Hard copy printed seforim will be phased out and electronic versions on tablets will take their place.

I guess you don’t realize this, but frum Yidden don’t use these devices on Shabbos or Yom Tov.

I do not see any reference to a smartphone in the Torah. The Rambam does not refer to smartphones. As with virtually everything not specifically referenced in the Torah, there are chekei deios between the Poskim. I personally know several Rebbes and Rabbonim who have -unfiltered- smartphones, forget filtered ones. There is no clearly no issur d’oraisa involved here. Anyone who suggests otherwise is deluding himself and others.

The answer is simply 2 words
יצר הרע

a virtual reality tech solution where you could wear special kosher of shabbos eyeglasses that would read your thoughts and know exactly where in the davening you were and project the visual on your lens

If it can read your thoughts, that opens up other useful applications, such as chastising you if you’re not focused on the davening or if you’re chatting with someone. 🙂

MasmidInTrainingParticipant
Hello, לשיטתי, Torah and technology don’t mix when not necessary, דהיינו seforim.
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Are you even listening to yourself?
Seforim and books were and still are aone through technology.
The first printing press was a major breakthrough in technology.
Think before u press the send button.
Horse and buggy was considered a technology at one time. What isnt technology?
Do u know that when the phones and cars were first invented, the rabbanim of time had a big huge problem on hand because they were convinced that many would use the them for various transgressions?
Do u also want to ban landlines and cars?

I PERSONALLY KNOW OF A MASSE THAT SOMEONE HAD THE AUDACITY TO CHECK THEIR E-MAIL DURING KEDUSHA……..
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Firstly, why arent you dan lekav zechus that mmaybe just maybe he was an emergency email he was expecting. 2ndly , if it was during kedusha why would u or anyone else be looking anywhere else but in thier own siddur?
So obviouly if you knew he was looking at email means you were in essence looking at his phone during that same kedusha. Look in your own back yard before you look at others.

Unnecessary or inappropriate smartphone usage is a symptom. It’s not the underlying problem.

smart phones are dumb.period.

jewboy2:

You are getting ridiculous. I know someone who talked in shul while holding an open siddur in front of him. Let’s ban siddurim! The ideas on nonsense are endless. Only truth has uniqueness. No one believes that smartphones do not present nisyonos. But a properly filtered phone is not an issur, and you have no right to declare it so. If someone gets “addicted” to it, the phone is not the problem, the person’s pattern of use is.

Do you know any alcoholics? Should we ban wine and other alcoholic beverages because some people misuse it? get real. Try to think, instead of shooting out your blanket pronouncements.

The little,
A sly foil to oppose all bans? How about drugs?Biological weapons?Or just jewish ones?Was the ban of 1956 wrong too?Or the Syrian ban of Geirus?

Why do you assume I trust myself? Personally I trust (know) myself to fall if I have unfiltered devices around. I don’t care much if others are OK or if they are secretly falling too, I know what works (or rather what doesn’t) work for me so I’m careful. I’m not even thinking in terms of yiddishkit, just in managing as a human. So I conclude to you and your question “why do people think they can trust themselves?” I don’t, and it seems from your question that you don’t trust yourself, so without basing my truth with others actions and what everyone else does, let yourself do what you know is best for you, and don’t care what others do! Hatzlacha Raba!

Time:

In case you don’t know, there are many uses for a smartphone, which are completely kosher. Many of these are critical for business, and many other benefits exist, as well. Before “banning” anything, one must be certain that no one is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I am not advocating that anyone have such a phone. And one without a filter carries greater dangers. I know that quite well. So let’s address the examples you provided.

Drugs – I support keeping illegal drugs illegal. There are many, now quite popular on the street, that are legitimately manufactured medications. These have critical medical uses, but also carry abuse potential. The other non-pharmaceutical drugs have no business being used, and possession and dealing in them should be a crime.

Biological weapons – I claim zero expertise in warfare. As I understand, these agents cannot be used, as per international agreements. If so, there is no reason not to ban them. They have no legitimate use. If you find a reason to use them appropriately, you should need to document that.

The ban of 1956 – I suspect you are referring to the ban in several cities against rock and roll music. Again, there is a judgment call about the dangers outweighing the benefits. It did not succeed because there was no support for it. We can hold a debate to retrospect about the advantage or disadvantage of such a ban. But that was the process, and it needs to be used for smartphones.

Syrian ban on Geirus – This was a rabbinic decision. It did not nullify geirus. It just involved the community not engaging in it, or supporting it. No Syrian could justify making a Ger Tzedek be mechalel Shabbos because of גוי ששבת חייב מיתה. The feeling (I have heard this from Syrian rabbonim) is that there are too many variables in the process that they were never sure it would be completely reliable. So they chose to avoid it. Yes, geirus is considered a blemish in that community. Once again, the benefits and risks were balanced out, and led to their decision. It is not exactly a ban, but I see your perception of similarity.

Rand0m3x , That might prove the contrary actually,

Cars are forbidden to minors or anyone who is unable to follow the regulations .
Even when someone weakens e.g. old age, they lose their licence

Second,with a vehicle,though it does make it easier, one still needs to go actively out to sin.(which was the case with horses & stagecoaches too)With a phone one could sit or lie in bed

(Finally ,in some communities the women refrain to this day from driving)

Why not assur everything that could remotely be used, directly or indirectly, in committing avieros. Those who mindlessly speak about assuring automobiles, electric-powered devices, and other forms of modern technology obviously have concluded the Ebeshter made a mistake when giving us the sechel to transform technology and improve the quality of our lives. Would the Steipler, Z’L, have preferred a woman with 5 yinglach to get to cheder drive them in a horse drawn cart down 13th avenue (rather than her minivan)? We have seen too many videos of chashuve rabbonim and even gadolei h’dor flying on private jets, being treated in hospitals that rely on the internet for medical knowledge and information sharing etc. to accept these recyled arguments against using modern technology.

I’ve heard in the name of the Steipler that the Sanhedrin would have
forbidden the use of cars because of the danger they pose to life.

I would like proof of this and even if its true, Even if jews dont drive, Non Jews do drive and there is still the danger of being hit by a car driven by a non-jews, the Sanhedrin has no power over them

Gadolhadorah,

“Why not assur everything that could remotely be used, directly or indirectly, in committing avieros.”

Reductio ad absurdum. The decision whether to ban smartphones or not is based on a risk/benefit analysis. Nobody denies the benefits of a smartphone, but the risks introduced by the technology are also quite high. Therefore, some have concluded that at this point, the risks outweigh the benefits. Filtering technology, apps, and cultural changes may well change that calculus now or in the future, but that’s the way it is. The balance of risks and benefits will be different for other technologies.

“Those who mindlessly speak about assuring automobiles, electric-powered devices, and other forms of modern technology obviously have concluded the Ebeshter made a mistake when giving us the sechel to transform technology and improve the quality of our lives.”

First, just because you disagree with another poster’s point does not make him or her “mindless.” Second, “they” have not concluded that any mistakes in the setup of the world have been made, CV”S. Rather, they disagree with you that smartphones have resulted in a net improvement to quality of life.

To call something “reductio ad absurdum” is merely to classify it;
it’s a type of argument, not a logical fallacy.

We should all have our tounges cut out because we speak loshon hora even in our homes in front of other family members and certainly in private. Speaking Loshon hora and and receiving it are all isurei d’orysa. Why is no one up in arms about it. We should have public tounge removals just like we have public smartphone burnings.
If you promise to not speak loshon hora you would go to a special place to have your tongue hot branded with a m’ushar stamp.
That should stop loshon hora for ever. Whats the next project now that we too care of phones and loshon hora? How about getting rid of molesters?