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Huh?
So they can loosen their ties….
Are you referring to with a tie or without? If without, the norm is to have the top button unbuttoned. If with, I think that’s more of a yeshivish thing, usually done when you’ve had your tie tied for 8 hours straight and are surprised that you haven’t yet died of asphyxiation.
Because it’s very uncomfortable to button the top button. There is no other reason.
ARWSF????? LOL!
WELCOME BACK!!
They’re following David HaMelech. When his clothing got in the way, he did away with it. Only difference is he did it l’chvod Shamayim, for HaShem’s honor. Why these people do it? Maybe they’re trying to concentrate on a hard piece of rashba or k’tzos, they need all the ventilation they can get.
Its much more comfortable that way.
I don’t know from where you take it that it is more of a litvish thing to leave the top button open, and a chasidshe thing to have it buttoned.
Because they are often blue collar workers and shvitz under the hard labor.
Being fully dressed, they are wearing ties, and many men discover no real problem in opening the top button under a tie (the alternative would be to get a bigger size shirt).
Because it looks and feels better
Coz it’s a) more comfortable, b) smarter, c) you look less daft and d) we feel like it.
I personally have very broad shoulders and a big neck and physically cannot do up the top button of any shirt that fits.
just by the way most chassidim have a inyan to have the top button open so i dont know where you get that from
frummy: a) businessmen wear ties all day with no need to open the button b) yeshivish guys usually don’t wear ties.
a mirrer: I don’t know which chassidim you hang around, but all the ones I see have the top button buttoned.
a mirrer
Stop looking in the mirrer and look around more you’ll see that chassidim button their top button.
Closing the top button takes extra time longer than other buttons. It is bittul zman. Those extra few seconds multiplied by thousands (Kein yirbu) of yeshiva-leit adds up to a significant chunk of time that could be used for more constructive purposes.
BTW – this is also why many masmidim wear slip on shoes, to save the time of tying and untying laced shoes, (even though they are mivatel kiyum of a halacha of tying the left shoe first).
However, besides the b’maizid unbuttoners, there are also some anusim, who simply can’t close the top button.
I know of some masmidim who wear clip on ties on shabbos for this reason (and also because they are choshesh of making a kesher on shabbos).
FYI everyone, I believe ARWSF is talking about the button after the top top button, not the button that is under the tie. This question makes more sense than the top top button. ARWSF, am I right?
shmendrik: The real masmidim leave their top two buttons opened, doubling their time savings to learn more and avoid bitul Torah.
I think its more likely that it used to be that everyone buttoned their top buttons and the chassidishe uniform never gave it up. As dress standards grew more relaxed some litvaks did give it up because it happens to be more comfortable. But I know plenty that button the top button as well.
It is more comfortable.As for making a kesher on Shabbat, if it is undone whenever removing the tie it is no problem as it is a maaseh hediot (anyone can do it) and temporary.
In an effort to take on the chumros of all sides, I have started wearing t-shirts. No buttons, no shaylas.
To Avi K who wrote: “As for making a kesher on Shabbat, if it is undone whenever removing the tie it is no problem as it is a maaseh hediot (anyone can do it) and temporary.”
Not exactly.
One may tie (and untie, not that you asked) any knot that isn’t strong and is meant to be untied within twenty-four hours of its being tied. Sh’miras Shabas K’hilchasah 15:52, :55. (However, :58 seems to contradict this).
Some people may leave their ties knotted even when they take them off for the night and then just slip them on in the morning. One would have to make sure not to do this on Motzei SHabbos if it was tied on Shabbat.
Same for shoe laces, if they were tied on Shabbos, they must be opened within 24 hours.
BTW – this is why some people are machmir when they get glillah at Shabbos mincha not to make a slip knot on the Torah, but to tuck in the gartel, since the Torah won’t be used till Monday. See Minchas Shabbos 80:155.
According to this view, it is also prohibited to knot a Sefer Torah band in this fashion on Thursday, since it has be untied on Shabbos morning.
Some people may leave their ties knotted even when they take them off for the night and then just slip them on in the morning. One would have to make sure not to do this on Motzei SHabbos if it was tied on Shabbat.
Perhaps this is the reason why some don’t wear a tie for Mincha.
Dash – “Perhaps this is the reason why some don’t wear a tie for Mincha.”
That may be simply because of the cholent stains.
However the halachic basis is a valid one:
There is an interesting Rashi and Ran in Nedarim daf 77 that notes a custom for women to remove their Shabbat jewelry on Shabbat afternoons towards the end of the day.
(Others say that it only applies to jewelry and not to general shabbos clothes – see Orchot Chaim, OC 300:2).
The Erech Shai OC 262 says the reason one is not required to wear Shabbat clothes at this time is to recall that Yosef, Moshe, and David passed away Shabbat afternoon.
Based on this, it makes sense to be yotzei all opinions, to wear shabbos clothes to mincha but not wear the tie (which may be like jewelry).
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