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Q-Is there a mesorah on girls chinuch? What are some Torah sources to support that?
Q-How old is that mesorah (if there is one)?Wow! So many questions.
And the answer is – Girls need to be educated.
In the shtetel prewar many girls were involved in all kind of isms the antidote was educate the girls in yidishkeit. Thanks to Rebetzin Soroh Shnerir and her powerful efforts. After the war school was mandatory for all children I am sure a vaad of rabonim decided what the girls should learn. However sometimes the discussion is more about how much is necessary and is it too much.
Before the Beis Yaakov’s started girls were educated only at home by their mothers on how to be a good Jewish wife and mother.
Joseph
It teaches them how to understand Rashi fully and remember it.
Beruriah knew and quoted Mishna. Also, contributed to the Gemorah.
Also, current Jewish education for both boys and girls is in large part a defense against inappropriate environment rather than learning l’shma. So, girls who might follow their lev, might need emotional education; those who will be exposed to foreign ideas, might need more intellectual learning.
A Chassidishe Rebbe, whose name escapes me, kept his daughters in his house in 1920s Poland, not to expose them to bad ideas on the street (presumably, a Chasiddishe street). I think a very relevant idea.
I think they should teach hashkafa, home keeping, food preparation and child rearing.
so they can teach their husbands.
efshar: most bais yaakov girls make is to memorize the meforshim for tests…so why not make them memorize meforshim that bring out yesodos of yahadus
I agree with “memorizing” re: inspiration. I don’t know whether many current schools are capable of changing their approach. After all, the teachers were already taught the same way for a couple generation already. Did you try approaching your school? What was the response?
Why do you assume that there’s a vaad of Rabbonim decided on the curriculum rather than each girls school principal or teachers dream up their own curriculum?
Because it is important that our frum doctors and lawyers and other professionals also be offered the opportunity to become equally accomplished in limudei kodesh. Within a few years, more than 50 percent of new professional degrees will be awarded to women. That is not meant to reflect negatively on those young Jewish women who prefer to spend a year in seminary and then marry, stay at home and have a family. But although the numbers are still relatively small, they are growing rapidly both in EY and here in the U.S. Denying them the opportunity to have grown in limudei kodesh at a younger age makes no sense.
These days there is much free time, maybe too much. If the choice for our young women is between allowing them to spend this time watching the goyishe world of entertainment or teaching them Baba Basra, I vote for the latter.
No question that the young women should be taught hashkafa , home keeping, food preparation and child rearing. With ovens, microwaves, food processors, cleaning ladies, au peres, first-class healthcare, disposable diapers and Art Scroll, that should take about a third of their time, leaving two thirds for Baba Basra.
The mesora is that they did. For example. Lavan garti. Rashi says the bracha was not mekuyam bi. So Kreindele the sister of Reb Yeshaya Pick Berlin said take gevir and subtract bi and you get ger.I think she was the wife of Reb Yoseph Steinhart the Rav of Fuerth. ( Nurenberg). The Beis Yehuda chumash with jargon was used by Rebbitzen Kaplan z”l. That established the American Mesorah.
The women have a responsibility to learn the written law, so they also have a responsibility to remember what they learned.
I would say that moed maseches should precede bava basra but even there the gemara veres off to topics not applicable to women.
“Before the Beis Yaakov’s started girls were educated only at home”
In Germany and the US, Jewish girls were being educated in formal Jewish settings decades before Sarah Schenirer was born.
efsharazoi, are you familiar with tbe view of tbe EIshas Sma (tbe wife of the Sma) that by yom tov you make tbe bracha before lighting candles? See Mishna Berura O’CH 263,26, many agree with her and tbe Chasam Sofer explains the mishna in tractate Shabbos 24 according to her other view that you light early on yom tov as shabbos.
There is another way, by referring to the reply number attached to each post.
personal testimony:
I once witnessed Rav Shapiro Z’L from Miami teaching a class at a summer location (admittedly, not a difficult class). Students were looking at him, while his wife was sitting at the far end of the table, reading a book that (to me) looked like a novel. At some point, Rav made a pause looking for a right word. His wife lowered the book and mouthed the word and Rav continued. Nobody noticed, of course. How did I notice? I was walking towards the table at that moment.efshar azoi- i will briefly respond to your last comment in the text of a ny bais yakov hs.
1. BYHS has one primary purpose when educating a girl bizman hazeh & that is to prepare her for the next stages in her life which includes a whole lot( sem, marriage, work, life challenges)
2. depending on what circle of yidden you live in your needs vary accordingly as an example ; if college is a given than you need better hs english , if sem is a given , you need a better handle on torah text inside.. if a job for many years is a given you need stronger hashkafa skills..
3. as far as sifsei chachamim vs nesivos sholom.. most ny hs do much more in terms of hashkafa than sifsei chachomim the diff is that hashkafa is in the form of many lectures , speeches…yet some definitely enjoy the inside learning as if they were boys
4. finally a girls big test is after she is married juggling , ehrliche work ,patience, kids , husband… where as a bochur needs to prove himself to be in yeshiva 3 sedorim as a bochur ( although plenty to grow as a baal habayis)efshar >> they are not approachable.
meir >> depending on what circle of yidden you live in your needs varyHow do we make schools address these different needs? I do not like current system where schools are ideological. Besides breaking up Am Israel, it is also impractical in all places outside NY. With some effort, it could be possible to set up extra science/English classes or add flexibility so that classes can be taken somewhere else. But my experience is, unfortunately, same as efshar’s – and that meir confirms by his “don’t worry, trust us” answer.
Of course girls have to learn sifsei chachamim
>> sifsei chachamim HIMSELF
hard to follow-up on that – except with the Ikar …
But the girls may be able to learn a LOT from siftei chachamim, in no particular order: he
wrote Masechet Derech Eretz – not about tzniyut, but about European roads and coins
was an entrepreneur (brought printing to the East)
married a young lady in his old age
classified 2,200 Hebrew books
was arrested but released for his printing, based on a University of Prague Jesuit report
tried to improve German grammar that Jews used (sic!)
AND, most relevant to the topic:
suggested that German-Jewish Jews use Amsterdam Portuguese curriculum instead of whatever we were doing(and this is just from a Wiki)
efshar azoi>> When was the last time your teen came home and told you a yesod they learned from these 2 subjects?
yes, this is the main point and it bothered me for years, despite all prodding.
School was obviously affecting girls in many positive ways, but at best they could do at home was criticize my wife’s “kulos”. After they stopped going to school, we now have long-winded discussions about Parsha with heated arguments. They are using what they learnt at school as a base, of course, to be fair.
I wanted to demonstrate how a woman became famous by contributing to halacha in her own mitzvos and how the men try to understand her views.
@efshar, R Shapiro’s story? Here is a lady that apparently knows everything her husband knows, and also knows her husband, and knows when to help him. And a husband, who knows that when in trouble, he needs to look at his wife.re: specific sources for girls to study.
I am for studying “basics” – but in depth. Remind you, we had ten commandments in the service, then deleted it due to apikoirosim claiming that this is all we have. I think we went the other way – we are teaching minute details of halakha, skipping basics.
We have disagreements here on such basic things as a need to work for a living, protect someone’s life, hillul Hashem, truth v false news. And discussions on these topics have less sources than minhagei nittel acht!What do you think about
Nehoma Leibowitz, Elia Munk for Humash, relatable/modern and still traditional, with occasional digging into their sources
Ein Yaakov – as intro to Talmudic approach, without piling up pilpul.Back to the original question why girls need to learn inside… because it’s cold outside.
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