Why can't girls stick out in a crowd?

Hi Rebbetzin Plonis, I’m Mrs. Cohen mother of Yankie, best bachur in his yeshiva. A former talmida of yours Yenta Baila was suggested as a shidduch. We have heard such wonderful things about her, she has been described as an outstanding girl. What did you say Mrs. Cohen, out standing? Where is she out standing? I have spoken to the girls many times about not standing out anywhere. how quick they are to forget everything we crammed down their throat during their year here. I would run from this girl Mrs Cohen and I will make sure that my name is never used as a reference for that rashanta ever again.

Shopping613,

our teachers are always telling us that we have to be refined in the street, look refined, no screaming, running, and so on….how talking on the phone makes people look in your direction so it shouldn’t be done.

I have to wonder if boys ever get speeches like this?

With the exception of the phones (which were not allowed on school time), I got those speeches every time there was a school activity, and I was in a public school. To me, it has more to do with being non-disruptive and mature rather than modest. Perhaps your teachers are making it an issue of modesty because they think that’s what’s important to their students.

so I started wondering if our teachers really mean that ALL girls should not be taling loudly, how are boys, men, children allowed to do so too?

I don’t really see adult men or women screaming, running, etc. in public. Did your teacher specifically say that boys and men are allowed to?

It’s seems so outlandish to say girls can’t run in the street and boys can

Who has said that it is ok for boys (or man) to be disruptive? Even if you see boys doing so, didn’t you say that the majority of girls in your class don’t take their teachers’ advice either?

I just don’t see why it’s considered to “moshech eneyim” of guys when we run, or talk loudly, but if boys do it, kids are doing it….then why would we stick out anyway

Once, very late on Shabbos night, there was a loud commotion outside my house that woke me up. I felt very upset because I was concerned that it would wake the baby, and my first assumption was that our (non-Jewish) neighbors were having a wild party, as they had done once or twice in the past. The voices didn’t sound like them, however, so I peeked outside and saw a group of Yeshiva boys cavorting down the middle of the street. I don’t think that behavior was ok. Nor do I appreciate when I am forced to overhear someone, man or woman, having a fight with someone else on their cell phone in the store or subway or wherever. Nor do I feel comfortable when packs of adult-sized “children”, boys or girls, engage in horseplay in shopping center parking lots. I don’t think you should interpret your teacher’s advice as an over-emphasis on modesty, but rather advice on how to conduct oneself as a mature adult. And that applies equally to men and women.

“our teachers are always telling us that we have to be refined in the street, look refined, no screaming, running, and so on….how talking on the phone makes people look in your direction so it shouldn’t be done.”

Interesting, my Rabbeim always said the same thing. The only thing they didnt talk about was talking on the phone because cell phones were not common in the 80s.

Shopping613,

And coffee addict from what I have heard from married women, we unfortunately do not get to sleep late, like until all our kids are out of the house.

Yes, and I’m not sure why this retort keeps coming up; it’s really not a good one.

Kids can usually take care of their basic needs and learn to be quiet and let their parents rest for a couple of hours by age 7 or 8 (it’s good chinuch for kibud av v’eim), so hopefully it’s not the teenager waking the mother up to beg for breakfast at 6am 🙂

Shopping,

I just assumed bochurim weren’t put up to such standards because you always see them making some sort of music video in the street, running late for minyan, or something else that they technically are allowed to do because it isn’t assur to have girls look at them.

To throw a monkey wrench into this my shul’s rav said there is an opinion that it is assur (don’t remember who it was in the name of) and the proof is from shaul hamelech

Shopping, I don’t know where you live, but I live probably not too far from you in EY and the only boys I see who carry on the way you describe are below Bar Mitzvah or the ones not chareidi. Even in Yerushalayim, it’s not rowdy the way you describe, most people are going about their business in a normal way. On buses, when there are groups of teenagers, things can get a little loud, but again it depends on what kind of crowd you’re talking about.

I would suggest you give your friend a little slack. Just because you don’t understand or agree with her desire to act more like a bas melech (even if not penima), what does it hurt you? If you feel that it makes you look bad or makes you feel like you should be doing it also, then analyze within yourself of whom you’re jealous – her for trying to rise to a higher level or the crowds you speak about who are basically acting like little kids. The older and more mature we get, the less we should be acting like that. Think of royalty in England or other places in Europe. You won’t see even the little princes and princesses over there acting wild. Just a thought.

You’re welcome.