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The author states conclusions without any evidence.
1: Why did the school close? Maybe they were closed by the department of health? Maybe they didn’t have enough students to open?
2: Why are other schools mechuyav to take in any girls that they don’t want, especially if they don’t conform to the restof the student body and/or don’t pay full tuition?
3: The author is a Rabbi of a nearby school in Far Rockaway. I didn’t see him offer any spots. Perhaps just like his school is full, other schools are full as well.
Thoughts?
It was a new and small school that didn’t have funds to continue.
Should yiddishe meidelech go to public school because they are orphans with no parents to pay a full tuition?
The problem has easily been summed up. Many people cannot afford to pay the tutitions and the schools cannot operate without the tutition money.
Anyone who figures out a solution to this problem deserves a Noble Prize. Obviously in more cohesive communities like lakewood or Williamsburg you can rely on Gervirim to make up the money, but it doesnt work in most other communities as there is no cohesiveness
As one of the Principals at Nefesh Academy, I can proudly say that we have not turned a blind eye. We have taken responsibility for EVERY student that contacted us.
If any student still does not have a place for this school year, her parents should contact the office at 718-339-9880. They can also reach me at [email protected].
We believe that every NEFESH should have a school to attend.
It seems to me that his point is to not point fingers at anyone; rather, his point is that the community should try to do something about it. He is right – we are all responsible for each other and have to try to do whatever we can. If there are any Jewish kids who are not in school for whatever reason, the entire community should be concerned and should be trying to do what they can (without placing blame on anyone else).
In the US its not possible to force people to contribute and there are unfortunatly Political concerns. the more modern would expect more secular to be taught and more zionistic and the more charedi would expect less zionistic and more torah to be taught.
I dont think you will get more modern people to contribute to Satmar schools, nor would you get Satmar to contribute to more modern schools
This whole article appears to be much ado about nothing. There was a school that closed due to lack of funds. There were requests that went out about 3 weeks ago stating that they did not have the funds to operate and may have to close down. Apparently, they did’s raise the funds and closed down at the last minute. It cannot be expected that a school closes down and the girls find a place to go within a few days. It does take some time. The fact that Macon Bais Yaakov agreed to accept the whole 12 grade is definitely a good thing, but even they couldn’t do it immediately. When Machon had orientation for they were still “interviewing” the girls and they were not necessarily going to start the first day of school. Things take time. As the author of the article doesn’t even say how many girls may be having issue, we don’t know if there is an issue or not.
GAW wrote: The author states conclusions without any evidence.
1: Why did the school close? Maybe they were closed by the department of health? Maybe they didn’t have enough students to open?
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The Yeshiva was recently levied with a hefty fine for not being housed in a Board of Education approved facility in Boro Park. This caused an immediate need for funds which the Rebbetzin tried to raise during the summer. The school was supposed to move to Flatbush for the 2016-2017 school year. However, the parents were notified at a meeting on August 29, 2016 that the yeshiva was in $100,000 in debt and would not be opening.
While credit does go to the Rebbetzin in trying to find other yeshivos for the girls, it did not give time for the parents to find other schools.
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2: Why are other schools mechuyav to take in any girls that they don’t want, especially if they don’t conform to the rest of the student body and/or don’t pay full tuition?
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GAW: Your point is valid. I do not believe they are mechuyav.
While Machon was nice enough to take in the 12th grade it was not without some conditions including interviewing the girls. It was not automatic as the author of the article claims. One of the conditions was that at least 20 girls be accepted by Machon.
I do not know about the other grades.
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3: The author is a Rabbi of a nearby school in Far Rockaway. I didn’t see him offer any spots. Perhaps just like his school is full, other schools are full as well.
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I am not sure that parents will want to bus the girls to Far Rockaway.
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The school has been around for ~8 – 10 years so I am not sure if it would be considered “new”.
So no one is responsible for taking in these girls, but the author is affiliated with a school so it’s his responsibility to take them in?
The whole thread is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
The author is a Rabbi of a nearby school in Far Rockaway. I didn’t see him offer any spots.
Is he in charge of admissions? Is Far Rockaway in Brooklyn?
His point wasn’t to criticize anyone – it was to raise awareness.
[COMMUNICATED CONTENT]
It seems very few know and realize what’s doing in Chinuch Mosdos. What kind of comparison is this Lakewood? Here, a local Boro Park Mosed, for whatever reason, summoned the parents to a meeting two days prior to school and announced, “We are closed for good. Find a school”.
Unlike Lakewood, where local children are stuck. As one parent said, you have to be either affluent or rich to get into a school.
In Boro Park, Mosdos are ??”? packed, besides for those that have offered space for a class or who ‘opened their doors wide’ to whoever they chose and quietly rejected the others.
Now R’ Yair, did you look into your own backyard and your neighbor’s? In your own community, in the Five Towns and Queens, there are many more children than Oz Vehodor’s locked out of Jewish schools because of horrendous, choking, brutal tuition.
What are you and Agudas Yisroel doing about it? For years and years all we have is articles writing about it in disbelief, while many a Mosad becomes big and important by making the parents bleed money way above their their Kochos.
Finally, kudos to Boro Park — without the fanfare, Rabbonim’s intervention and outside activists — in less than a week almost every single girl of Oz Vehodor has found a place. Yes, without the Askonim and without the active involvement of those who send the kids to the streets.
Just a note, While Far Rockaway is in the borough of Queens, when you say Queens as in the jewish community , you mean Kew Gardens Hills and the surrounding areas like Hillcrest and Forest Hills. Far Rockaway is considered essentially part of the 5 towns.
Rabbi Hoffman has nothing to do with those areas of Queens.
There is a painful reality. There are many hundreds of kids who belong in yeshivos confined to home or street. There is an entire industry of askanim whose lives are dedicated to placing kids in yeshivos, and there have already been meetings and discussions in high places to address the problem. It is not a small problem, but a huge, troublesome one. There is no easy answer.
Often, kids are cast into the streets because of the insistence on tuition, when parents are struggling to make ends meet. This is a difficult problem. To take kids for free bankrupts the school, and results in teachers and faculty leaving. To punish the child for the parents’ struggles is equally unfair and immoral. Admission policies are based on little bits of rational thinking, and primarily on myth. Expulsion policies are based on the impulsive anger of the hanhala, not halacha or morality.
The author is correct. No easy answers, but there can be little tolerance for ignoring the issue as a serious problem. The future of Klal Yisroel is at stake.
TLIK, Which Yeshiva our Beis Yaakov expels children for missing payments on the tuition balances? From everything I know that is a myth.
Why is there a chiyuv to help these girls? Many Rabbonim have famously paskened that when it comes to children receiving a Jewish education, it is considered dinei nefashos. Indeed, some were even machalel Shabbos to deal with these issues.
If you saw someone drowning, would you say “It’s not my business!” and walk away? You’d be transgressing an issur d’Oraysa in doing so – Lo saamod al daam re’acha!
If a girl doesn’t have a school, it’s considered pikuach nefesh. Everyone who is able to help has an obligation to do so.
As for the Five Towns and high tuition, I can’t speak for all schools, but I can speak about the yeshiva I went to, Darchei Torah. Darchei’s tuition is not cheap. But if someone can’t afford it, they will work with the person to find out what they can afford. I personally know of families who not only paid no tuition at all, but had R’ Bender help them out. I remember when I was in the yeshiva, R’ Bender would meet with every boy before Pesach and find out if they needed a new suit, or a new hat for Yom Tov. If it was needed, he would pay for it.
Yes, tuition is high pretty much everywhere in the US. I just think about it the same way I think about other things. One day, I will be giving a din v’cheshbon, and they may ask me, “How much did you value your children’s Jewish education?” I will be able to answer, “I gave up vacations, a big house, a fancy car, and many other things, and made their education my top priority!” Money all comes from Hashem, and He gives us what we need.
It’s easy to point the finger of blame at our Mosdos and walk away feeling self-righteous.
In reality they’re dealing with some really tough questions.
As DaMoshe points out, we are dealing with dinei nefashos.
Our schools are responsible both for the nefashos already within their walls, and for those on the outside who wish to enter. How do you decide who takes precedence? When you’re dealing with impressionable young girls growing up in an immoral society, the consequences of a bad decision can be truly frightening. How do you know who will influence whom? How far do you go to protect your student body from seeing or hearing about things you’re trying to shelter them from? And if by sheltering them you keep another Nefesh Yehudis out of the walls of your mossad- you have achrayus for the possible (should I say probable?) destruction of that soul.
Not simple. And not just a question of dollars and cents.
” Where are the parents? “
What if the parents are dirt poor (and working)?
All this talk about tuition has nothing to do with Oz Vehodor, though. They charged and parents paid. One parent said he actually paid for this year’s registration as well — and is not getting it back.
What I posted above was written by someone who actually works tirelessly getting children into Yeshivos and is very frustrated by the roadblocks of Chinuch.
HaLeiVI, his English writing, that you posted, is difficult to decipher his point. His points about Lakewood, affluence, quiet rejection and the Agudah are completely incomprehensible.
AFAIK all poor frum children, whose only fault is being poor, are in yeshivos and beis yaakovs.
By ‘frum’ you mean to exclude those who sent their children to public school?
By frum I mean any type of family that desires to send their children to a heimish Yeshiva or Beis Yaakov.
From what I can see of this thread there are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up.
GAW: Do we know if Rabbi Hoffman is even involved with a girl’s yeshiva?
L11210 wrote:”I am not sure that parents will want to bus the girls to Far Rockaway.”
GAW responded: “Beggars can’t be choosers.”
The situation with Oz Vehador was not the FAULT of the parents but the Administration. They DID NOT inform the parents about the closure until August 29. Do you think the parents would not have been looking for a school in July and August had they been told that there is a good chance the school was closing? Don’t have the chutzpah to make such a statement when the parents were not informed.
“Hence “Frum” as a pejorative.”
Willing to struggle and go through the hardship of making sure your children go to a Yeshiva or Bais Yaakov is not “Showing on the outside that you are holier”.
That is a despicable comment to make.
GAW: In your first post you made the comment “The author is a Rabbi of a nearby school in Far Rockaway. I didn’t see him offer any spots. Perhaps just like his school is full, other schools are full as well.”
L.11210 Responded: “”I am not sure that parents will want to bus the girls to Far Rockaway.”
GAW responded: “Beggars can’t be choosers.”
First, having had boys who attended yeshiva in Far Rockaway/Bayswater I can attest to the difficulty of busing children there.
Second, I think that this remark is callous and rude. The two major facts are that the yeshiva was fined for not being in a Board of Education approved facility causing an undo financial crisis and that the parents were not informed until August 29 that the school would not open for 2016-2017. These parents are not “Beggars”.
“beggars can’t be choosers”
when one of my kids did not have a local option of a yeshiva that would be hashkofically appropriate for him I guess that left me a beggar. But it was my kid and his future. I chose anyway.
GAW,
Unless youy are really as stupid as you are making yourself out to be, you know clearly that Joseph did not mean it as “holier than thou”. You know that he meant that a child of a family who defines themselves as frum and wants to go to yeshiva will go.
There are multiple organizations, people and schools that will make it happen if the reason for exclusion is because the parents cannot afford tuition,.
On the other hand, people who buck the schools’ policies and constantly holler that the school’s are strictly “holier than thou” will have a problem getting children into school because the schools know that they will be fighting a losing battle trying to teach children whose parents are doing the utmost to undo the school’s work.
Joseph asked, “Which Yeshiva our Beis Yaakov expels children for missing payments on the tuition balances? From everything I know that is a myth.”
There is a very painful answer to this. Many. In BP, re-registration midyear is common, being scheduled 1-2 times, with security guards collecting admission tickets that are provided to parents whose balances are paid. I have seen many cases, various yeshivos and schools, in which unpaid balances result in children being asked to stay home and not attend. I do not fault the schools for demanding their due. These funds are for day to day legitimate expenses, whether salaries, basic costs of upkeep and supplies. The issue of prioritizing these costs is not mine. Borads of directors and administrators know more about that. That withholding the kids from being in yeshiva is the leverage is outrageous. What should a two-parent working family do? Lose a day’s pay to babysit? Why is the innocent child being punished? Without challenge to the need for money, if the talmid is not there, who needs money?
Yes, this is commonplace. Survey parents, if you like.
gaw – have no fear, that is not what I thought you meant. I was just making the point that even when in the position of being a beggar, I will still be choosy for a school that is good for my kid even tho I might be more flexible otherwise.
TLIK, if a child doesn’t have the admission card they aren’t sent home.
gavra, don’t be a yutz. I said that anyone wanting to send their children to a heimish Yeshiva or BY is frum, in the context of the above conversation of who doesn’t go to public school. I did not say anyone who doesn’t send to a heimish Yeshiva or BY isn’t frum.
Joseph:
Not true. Maybe you had such personal experience. My experience was different. My kids were not allowed on the bus, or if they walked to school were sent home. I know many others who had similar experiences. I will refrain from exposing names of schools, but they know who they are. What shocks me beyond belief is that they do this rejection shamelessly.
The fact that the wrong person is getting punished, that punishment is being used altogether, that there is total disregard for the needs of the individual student, that ignores the effects and impact of embarrassment and rejection of a child.
We have all heard the excuse that there is justification that one may destroy an individual in order to benefit the public. There happens to be no precedent in Torah for this thinking. Quite the contrary. There are countless anecdotes from the greatest Gedolim of generations that disallow such rejection of the individual. Allow a quote. The Chazon Ish ZT”L stated that the initial mission of opening yeshivos after the holocaust was to replant Torah. In that mission, the goal was to address the directing of chinuch to the masses. However, that transplantation has already occurred successfully. The mission of chinuch now needs to be directed to the individual. So said the Chazon Ish, who left us some 60 years ago. Where, oh, where is the attention to the individual talmid?
TLIK, you indicated above that this occurred to you in a BP mosod. Did I understand that correctly?
Joseph:
That is correct. But I am not the only one I know with such experiences. Among others I know are schools and yeshivos in other parts of the NY area.
I have no intention of maligning any specific yeshiva/school. I simply am pointing out the casualness that exists with regard to the sanctity of every single neshomoh. I repeat my acknowledgement of the financial concerns of yeshivos. But it is the parents that need to pay, not the children.
The double jeopardy here is that the student who spends much time outside of the yeshiva, under the circumstances of rejection, runs a higher risk of being less appropriate when returning, prompting another reason to expel him/her. I have actually observed this firsthand.
Rabosai, our community has a serious problem. Now that we have some awareness of it, can we address some way to remedy the situation. Some time ago, one of the frum magazines carried a cover story, No Child Left Behind. Are we serious about this or not?
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