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Is this just one of those leftovers from the 19th century when it took a week and a half just get a horse and wagon ride from Minsk to Pinsk to your little shtetl? If we have more advanced modes of transportation and nothing for the bachurim to do why doesn’t anyone change it?
“Why are Yeshiva bein hazmanim so long?”
theyre not. and just because you don’t want/need time with your kid to bond, be mashpia, check in on them, their progress, well being, state of mind and overall mental health, don’t impose that on me and my kid.My wife and I lament the other way….only 2 weeks to see our son, DIL and einikel. The other two weeks they will be by my DIL’s parents.
By the 19th century, they had railroads. It dates back earlier to when they often had to walk.
Actually the vacations are relatively short. The Americans get off from Memorial Day to Labor Day, three complete months.
akuperma, why are you using American school children to compare to Yiddishe adults? We are adult Yidden and they are minor goyim. Two very major differences.
Working stiffs don’t get three months of vacation a year, so why would adult students?
I’m comparing American college students to yeshiva students. As far as I can tell, Baal ha-basim never got off for “Bein ha-zmanim” unless they were employed by a yeshiva. Note that some Americans, particularly teachers, do routinely get three months of vacation every year.
if your son was working would expect him to take a vacation 3 months out of the year so that you could spend some time with him and your grandson/granddaughter
you’re confusing me. Your OP was commenting on how the bein hazmanim they have is too long. Now you are asking if we expect someone to make their own. There is a considerable difference between supporting something that exists, and asking something incomparable to be instated.
What about you syag-do you take off from work 3 months out of the year so that you can spend the time bonding with your son?
um..yeah. I gave up working in hospitals for working in the schools so that I could be off whenever my kids were home to bond with them and be involved in their lives. In fact, after my first turned 1, my husband and I decided we would give up a second income altogether to be available to raise our own kids, to be home for them and to be available for school outings when parents were invited. So yeah. But totally thrown off about why that seems like a foreign concept to you.
Both of these arguments sound rather shallow and self centered. Its like saying “I don’t really care how much vacation time he has as long as he spends some of it with me”
This may be the most baffling comment of all. iacisrmma is self centered for wanting to spend time with his son, and I am self centered for wanting to bond with him and be involved in his life. {head scratch}
The comparison to other professions is just a diversion. You opened a thread to discuss the purpose or lack thereof of a system already in place, complaining you may have to spend too much time with your kids perhaps or some other issue. But taking off of a job that doesn’t offer that time is apples and oranges. And as far as I’m concerned, the higher paid executives, doctors, professionals etc are the ones who work less 9-5 shifts, not more.
So long? guys are spending 14 hours a day learning, and you think a two week break every once in a while to let off a little steam is long?
CTRebbe: You wrote “So iacisrmma- if your son was working would expect him to take a vacation 3 months out of the year so that you could spend some time with him and your grandson/granddaughter? ” What did I write that would give you this crazy idea? Did I say he should take time off from learning to come to the USA to visit us? He left with his wife for Eretz Yisroel on Chaf Gimmel Nissan 5777 and we knew that we wouldn’t be seeing them until after Rosh Chodesh Nissan 5778. We also knew that he would want to be back in EY for the beginning of the summer zman on Rosh Chodesh Iyar, thereby leaving just about 4 weeks to enjoy him and his family (with two of those weeks belonging to our mechutanim). So yes, we lament that we will only have 2 weeks to see him and his family and enjoy their company. BTW, his bein hazmanim is not time off, he normally has his chavrusahs here in the US set up before he leaves EY.
iacisrmma,
I’m with you all the way!
I think we have to clarify who we’re talking about. Are we discussing American high schools, the various types of yeshivos ketanos, or the advanced yeshivos in EY like Mir, Brisk etc.?The problem IMO is not Bein Hazamin, but other “free time” .
In the goyish velt Saturday and Sundays are days off and people can spend family time together and dont need as much “Bein Hazamin”, In some Modern frum communities Sunday is that day that can fill the void
So a week vacation along with Weekends can fill the 4 week Bein Hazamin
Shabbos doesnt count because many of the boys arent home for Shabbos and when you have the whole family couped up in the house, it doesnt always make good company and people get cabin fever
Many Gedolim were in favor of not giving bochorim off for Chol Hamoed and, instead, keeping the Yeshiva open. Even if that meant giving them off another time.
CTRebbe: I don’t like the fact that you keep comparing bein hazmanim to a vacation. But let me play your game. You work for a frum person. He shuts his business from Yom Kippur until Rosh Chodesh Marcheshvan. He shuts his business for the entire month of Nissan. He then shuts his business from Tisha B’av until Rosh Chodesh Elul. Is that considered a vacation for the workers? Would you be working from home those days? Yet, this what the yeshivos do and their “workers” still go to work on those days, whether it’s learning in a bein hazmanim kolel or with chavrusahs.
A Rosh Yeshiva (in EY) has 300 bochurim/yungerleit in the yeshiva. Many have to travel back to their parents in the US, Canada, England, Australia…..what should he do? Have different dates for bein hazmanim depending on which country his talmidim are flying back to? Is Bein Hazmanim only for the bochrim or for the hanhallah of the yeshiva, too?
Yes, I know that R’ Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg TZATZAL also wanted to do away with bein hazmanim. Parents whose sons and son-in-laws are shteiging in EY have a right to see them at least once a year.
ZD, you don’t sound like you’re a big fan of Shabbos.
I think you got your answer, you just dont like it. It isnt a vacation, and learning isnt a vocation. These guys are under a microscope 24/7 , unlike ANY profession in the world that i know of. . My sons (in the twenties) have chavrusas durong dinner and after maariv. Shabbos noght, morning and day. What do they do during beon hazmanim? Get shoes, new suit, dentist, doctor, medical procedures, call friends from other yeshivos that thry cant talk to all zman cuz none habe phones, visit nephews… you get the idea. Its harder for me to see why they SHOULDNT have this time, then to see why any 9-5er should have a long weekend.
In the early 1970s the Vaad Hayeshivos in Eretz Yisroel suggested shortening the bein hazmanim. Rav Chaim Shmeulevitz, z”tl said that between the sefarimof the Torah there are three blank lines and if they are not there, the Sefer Torah is pasul.
What’s being under the microscope have to do with how much time off is needed?
Joseph…what do you think? Why do people with more pressure need more vacation?
Here’s a question I don’t see addressed in discussions of this topic. Perhaps having more regular breaks would help talmidim learn and understand what they learn deeper. Like maybe having a few weeks here and a few months there would actually help talmidim develop as bigger lamdanim and talmidei chachomim. Would yeshivas then say, ok, or would they say, af al pi that the breaks help, they’re still bittul Torah. Any thoughts?
As someone who’s learned in yeshiva before knows, you can’t be awesome without serious and complete dedication to learning, staying up in the beis medrash yomam valayla day after day, week after week. But it’s also important to sometimes have breaks, and do something else, either for a few minutes or a few days, or maybe even for a few weeks. Does that matter in this discussion? Like, in an ideal yeshiva would there never be any breaks at all?
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