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Disturbingly, I just heard that Gilad Shalit wad not allowed on the tehilim list for Matir Asuurim in certain schools…
A Jew is in trouble for heaven’s sakes, can politics be put on the back burner???
Who do they allow on their list?
Do they have a “matir assurim” list? If they don’t have a list (for whatever reason), I don’t they will make one for him. That’s a decision that a school has full right to make (even if you disagree).
If they have a list of ten.. people and have excluded certain people then, call them and ask why
itche – what compels you to hurl that kind of loshon hora at yeshivas?
they don’t want him back
Yeah, they like Jewish people to be suffering R”L. Sure thing
itche – tbt offered a rational explanation before you made your appalling comment.
It only took two and a half hours for motzi shem rah to turn into loshon hora. And all it took was an ambiguous shmuah.
The L-rd works in mysterious ways. The yeitzer horah doesn’t.
ItcheSrulic:
Do you daven for all sick people? Why not? Can I take each one by name and claim since you wouldn’t take the three and a half seconds to add each individual, then you want them sick R”L
aishes
the Cuban government has been holding an innocent Jew named Alan Gross since 2009, who went there as an aid worker. he is, as we speak, being put on a show trial as a US “spy”.
why havent you started a thread about why all these yeshivas arent saying tehilim for him and the hundreds of other jewish prisoners around the world?
aishes
so, in your opinion, every yeshiva should include all the hundreds of jewish prisoners around the world – individually by name in matir asurim, alan gross and everyone else?
i am suggesting that there are many frum *innocent* people in jail in both america and around the world. yes, innocent people get convicted often. sometimes this is later recognized when they reverse a false conviction and many times they are unfortunately never that lucky.
i think frum Torah observant people deserve our prayers before others. that does not exclude anyone else, of course, who we can have in mind in the general matir asurim prayer.
nevertheless, i think it is a valid question why some folks like to put high profile names first, when in truth there are more worthwhile cases we can include individually, considering the limited time each shul has in deciding how many names to individually recite.
AC: I was going to respond, but I think shlishi put it well (and a little gentler than I would have)
aishes
you opened your OP about this issue with “I just heard” about “certain schools”. so how does your second or third or fourth-hand report now know that “Shalit was not excluded because the list was too long”? and how do you get the ability to define for these “certain schools” how long is too long? are you saying that these “certain schools” will all acquiesce to allow inclusion of everyone anyone requests to include from anywhere in the world, in their matir asurim list, even if the requester is not affiliated with that person anymore than they are with shalit? how are you aware of all these factors?
“Aishes Chayil,” the ONLY, and I mean ONLY reason you would have a snowball’s chance in gehinnom at being allowed to post such a thing is IF you contacted ALL the schools and heard, from people in authority, that they weren’t allowing the name Gilad ben Aviva on their lists and why. Oh, and IF, after that, you contacted a rav and asked if the correct course of action to drum up support would be to go the coffee room and post what you did.
Yes, you DO have to call them if you feel a need to rant in such a forum.
And guess what. You don’t have to send your kids to those schools.
Mamashtakeh, thumbs up. We say the words matir assurim a few times a day, a good time to have in mind all those imprisoned (yes, Alan Gross too, of course). There’s also a Tehillim sign up for Gilad ben Aviva at http://www.cholimlist.org .
when I say I heard about ‘certain schools’, I am not implying 3rd hand reports. I dont want to mention the name of the schools for obvious reasons,and it doesnt matter.
I pointed out in an earlier post , that I am not going to get into specifics as far as the ‘when where and hows’
I am perfectly aware that the reason he was exempt was/is politically related.
You are accusing the schools of not doing the “correct” (in your dictionary) thing due to political motivation, yet you are doing the incorrect thing due to political motivation.
I see however that you have plenty of spare time on your hands ( I wish you’d give ME some) to beat around the bush
Is that your best cop-out? You Aishes Chayil, are beating around the bush and refusing to be up front and honest. You took the time to make accusations and defend them. Yet you have no-time to consider some very valid points?
As shlishi mentioned, the schools do not have the time to include every person on their list. You are not concerned with that. You dont mind if they omit everyone, as long as they include Shalit.
Well, since you wont have time to respond, I wish good luck
If there is a matir assurim list, then there is absolutely no reason why Gilad Shalit and the other missing Israeli soldiers such as Ron Arad, Zachary Baumel, Rachamim Alshich, Yosef Fink, Yehudah Katz, Zvi Feldman, and Guy Chaver should not be at the very top.
All other prisoners were probably to some degree at least a poshea if not worse, except in the rare instance a totally innocent person was convicted. I am not saying we should not daven, give funds, and do hishtadlus for all except hardened criminals who were meizidim. Nevertheless it is obvious that the Israeli soldiers must be the top priority, and were captured for selfless reasons.
MamashTakeh, that was a beautiful post.
Aishes Chayil while your point is well-taken, I find it hard to believe that even the most anti-zionist school in the world would be so hard-hearted not to include him on the list. So I am very curious if something is missing from your story. I think you or somebody should double check with the school. Nevertheless, if you are correct and the 3 boys from Japan are on the list, while Gilad is not allowed to be on it, then somebody running the school must not have all their marbles. However, I find it very hard to believe that this could be the case.
AC: There are several “logical” reasons. Some were mentioned. I don’t see any point in speccifing them to someone who is not interested in knowing them, rather they’re seeking to score a political cheap shot. Good luck ma’am
JU: you claim to be about unity, but other than your moniker, you’re doing the oposit. Where in this thread did anyone say “ask a rav” other than your fictious quote??
The only thing that was said was to ask the people you’re critsizing based upon your assumptions, and become aware of their reason. Other peoples narrow minded-ness does not make these schools guilty of wrongdoing. The people who seek to criticize on assumptions, they sure seem guilty- or just very narrow minded. I hope it’s only about this particular issue, which I’ll try to find a way to see the tzad zchus…
JU: Good morning.
I find it difficult to believe you don’t think there is friction between MO and charedi and charedi and MO
Thank you, thank you and thank you. So this is what its all about. Since “there is friction” I’m gonna knock ’em out! Great. So, to you, this has very little to do with a young man suffering. Its mostly about the friction. Un huh.
I think its very cold to use a young mans suffering in order to score political cheap-shots. In fact, its even mean! Saying Tehilim and davening for a person creates zechusim for them. Part of the zechusim are due to the fact that he is the cause of people davening (coming closer to Hashem). However, when someone is the cause of actions which distance people from Hashem (slander, continuing friction etc etc) it can C”V have the opposite affect of a zechus…
Have a pleasant day.
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