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Rashi, Bartenura, Alfasi,
Like I wrote before
Like I wrote before
Like I wrote before
Just a little longer…
The ASPCA, DOMH etc. have been duly notified… They’re on the way..
So you have an Italian wine, who do you name it after: How about call it the Titus to remind us what we have to think the Italians for. Perhaps we call it the Mussolini (well, he was a nice guy compated to the rest of his gang). No we pick a name associated with the place that has a positive association for Jews – and for many European country’s that means a rishon. It isn’t like those countries have done anything for us lately, but they do produce nice wines (maybe with global warming, we’ll get better wines in the New York, but until then…)
It’s a bizoyon to use these holy names for commercial products.
I always had the same question. Weird name for a wine.
And Alfasi? That’s also a wine name?
Joseph
Its a bizayon to use holy names for trolling
Scared
Rashi was a winemaker (or at the very least is beleived by some historians to have been one), thus it is a very appropriate name for a wine company. (I am not sure about the others)
that’s like naming a shul R’ Akiva Eiger because ra”e was a rav.
Bartenura is just the Hebrew name of the Italian town of Bertinoro, which is where R. Ovadiah is from.
Alfasi is Arabic for “of Fes,” which is the Moroccon city from which he hailed.
So, of your list of three name, two are geographic.
The Wolf
And street names after rabonim is acceptable? Israel is full of great, yet it find it uncomplemantry
Meet you at the corner of rashbi and baal Hanes…..
scared.
Its not quite the same, but similar. At any rate are you agreeing or disagreeing?
Its more similar to naming a hospital Maimonidies
What would you think of a new seltzer called Rav Ovadia’s Water?
Joseph: Interesting. Bartenura and Rashi were both named in honor of those Rishonim. Alfasi doesn’t seem to be related to the Rif but I can’t be sure. Either way, though, it’s intended as a Kavod. Wines are often named in honor of famous people. King David is a much bigger Taana than any of the Rishonim.
ubiquitin- the whole thing with Rashi being a winemaker is pretty sketchy. Meaning, there is little to no evidence to support that.
Why is using the names of Bartenura, Rashi, Be’er Mayim Chaim, etc for commercial food brand names any less objectionable than for anyone to today establish new food products bearing all of the following brand names?:
Igros Moshe Cholent
Rav Eliashev Fish
Gerrer Rebbe Cookies
Rav Hershel Schachter Spices
Rav Belsky Orange Juice
Rav Pam Beans
Chofetz Chaim Chicken Soup
Rav Chaim Kanievsky Meatballs
sam2, king david wasn’t a tanna.
Joseph, in Israel there is a meat brand called chofetz chaim, so you get chofetz chaim sausages 🙂
JosephL Because even in the non-Jewish industry, it’s considered a big Kavod to name wines after someone.
SDD: I said Taana. There is a wine named King David.
The street names in Geula always irked me.
…bought a hat on Yeshaya.
…the garbage dumpster overflowed on Malachi.
There’s a pizza store called King David also
Sam: So we’re taking our cues on what is bakovidik from the non-Jews?
Joseph, I dont follow was R’ Moshe a chilent maker? Waa Rav Elyashiv a fishmonger? Etc…
Yosi7, i’m a step ahead. Reread post.
Scared ive reread your post a few times and am still not sure which way you are arguing.
At any rate here are a few yeshivos named after rabbonim. Feel free to add more:
Chofetz chaim
Yeshivas rabeinu chaim berlin
Yeshivas rabeinu yitzchak elchanon
Chasan sofer
Beis yosef navardak (unless yosef was a donor)
Joseph: Why not? If there’s no Makor in Torah that it’s a lack of Kavod and there’s no Makor in society that it lacks Kavod, why does it lack Kavod? Find me a Makor that it isn’t Mechubad. Otherwise, who made you (or me, or any few individuals) the arbiters on what constitutes Kavod and what doesn’t?
For what it is worth, the bottles are not named after anyone. Neither are the wines.
sam2: oh. lol. sorry, I misread that.
ubiquitin I’m not sure which way I was arguing, either.
Chofetz Chaim & Bais yoseif don’t count because they mean something; it’s not their name
(Chasan sofer does count because even though it’s not his name it doesn’t mean much)
But anyway I don’t think these are analogous because it’s more like saying Yeshivas lizichron (or that was established by) Rabeinu… not like wines which is more like a tiltle
(OK, so you’re going to say that that’s what you meant here
but the truth is I meant ra”e like a title, not like a lz”n. Hope you followed me; I’m not sure how much sense I’m making.)
There’s also yeshivas RJJ.
SDD: Well, none of those are names either. Alfasi and Bartenura are nicknames based on their home cities and Rashi is an acronym of his initials.
Rashi is an acronym for a name. Chofetz Chayyim has nothing to do with a name. (The point about Bartenura and ALfasi was already brought up before
ubiq: We’re not discussing whether it is a good marketing brand name. We’re discussing whether it is disrespectful to name a commercial product after a godol.
joseph obviously.
Though your compariosns should be relevant to the subject at hand. none of your examples made any sense
The relevancy of the made-up brand name to the godol is irrelevant (no pun intended) to the point I’m making.
Would you purchase a bottle of Rav Belsky Orange Juice*? Would you find that brand name objectionable?
*no affiliation with the named godol.
Joseph relevant or not it is nonsensical. At any rate:
Would you purchase a bottle of Rav Belsky Orange Juice*?
Assuming it was kosher and tasty. Absolutely
Would you find that brand name objectionable?
Assuming he allows it, no why would I?
Did Bartenura or Rashi give their assent to their names being utilized for commercial products? Or would you be okay with purchasing a jar of Rav Pam Beans?
No but they aren’t alive and they don’t have any descendents who can claim ownership of their name.
If Rav Pam’s descendants allowed it I would certainly be ok with buying it. (Though again, it would be a very strange name)
And do you for even a moment think that Rav Pam’s descendants would dare permit his name to be used on a commercial food product (even if there was some relevancy between the food and Rav Pam)?
Joseph, why don’t you ask them
Joseph, wine is viewed as an elegant product, thus naming a company after Rashi is viewed as an honor. Clearly you don’t, so don’t buy the product. It’s that simple
serious sheesh. Joseph criticized the company’s choice of a name and you tell him “don’t buy the product” if you don’t like it??
Joseph
“And do you for even a moment think that Rav Pam’s descendants would dare permit his name to be used on a commercial food product (even if there was some relevancy between the food and Rav Pam)”
If Rav Pam was a bean seller. I think they would sell them.
Do you think Rabbi Reisman is opposed to Reisman’s cookies? (I know this is a terrible example, but yours are much worse)
Do you think calling a hospital Maimonides or ???? ????? ???”? is wrong?
(Scared,
joseph said not to buy it)
If Rav Pam was a bean seller he wouldn’t have been Rav Pam.
Joseph: You haven’t answered my question. Find me a Makor in Torah or society that naming wine bottles after someone is a lack of Kavod.
Find me a Makor in Torah or society that naming a cruise ship after someone is a lack of Kavod. The Queen Elizabeth II cruise ship is not a lack of kovod, right?
Would you find it objectionable for Cunard Line to name their next ship The RMS Rav Moshe Feinstein and target the Orthodox Jewish market? I certainly would.
Joseph: Correct. The name of a cruise liner is a sign of respect, not a lack of Kavod, and has been perceived as such by the world.
I asked for a source for your opinion. Your response was to merely restate that opinion.
“If Rav Pam was a bean seller he wouldn’t have been Rav Pam. “
That sounds like a lack of kavod to me! I beleive Rav Pam could have been a bean seller and Rav PAm. Shame on you for knocking a Gadol B’yisroel.
At any rate Rashi was (believed by some historians to have been) a wine merchant and Rahi at the same time. Which is why your examples above where nonsensical
Also
Do you think calling a hospital Maimonides or ???? ????? ???”? is wrong?
Joseph- You might…but he was asking for a Mekor not what you find objectionable.
Reisman’s cookies is, as mentioned, a terrible example because it has nothing to do with Rabbi Reisman.
“Joseph said not to buy it”–you mean “would you purchase…”? Hm. I didn’t read it like that, but I have to say, it seems you’re right.
Joseph: Find me a Makor in Torah or society that naming a cruise ship after someone is a lack of Kavod. The Queen Elizabeth II cruise ship is not a lack of kovod, right?
Was that supposed to make snse?
I was partially parroting the poster I responded to.
uniq: I would categorize naming a hospital closer in similarity to naming a shul. I don’t think anybody would object to naming a shul or yeshiva after a godol. But neither is comparable to using a godol’s name for mercantile purposes.
Joe
I am so sorry to break this to you but hospitals are mercantile purposes as well. Granted they may be more chashuv than beans but so is wine.
“I don’t think anybody would object to naming a shul or yeshiva after a godol. “
Dont be so sure it is a very big often strange planet. I didtn think anybody would object to naming a wine after a Rishon who was (beleived to have been) a wine-merchant
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some Yeshivos are, too, “mercantile” in that sense. Many hospitals are non-profit, btw. But all this is besides the point.
Joseph
I dont think non-profit means what you think it means
I can’t say right or wrong, but I have to say that the first time, long ago, that I heard a hospital was called Maimonides, I didn’t like it a bit. It made me cringe until after a while as with so many things, I stopped noticing and no longer connect the name of the hospital to anyone. And yes I got the Rashi connection to wine but it took me a long time to get used to that too. Don’t laugh- I didn’t like having a pizza shop named after the holiest city in the world either.
There’s definitely a certain chutzpah in our generation that’s so pervasive we don’t even notice it any more.
Pnei hador k’pnei ha’kelev, anyone?
*** And can we please, please, stop using names of real Gedolim and Talmidei Chachamim in this thread? If I was a Mod, there are a few posts above that I’d send straight to the trash bin…
maskim . . .
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