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It seems that in a very large majority of cases of seperations, the divorce is initially sought by the wife. Any insight why that is?
Umm… You couldn’t make up a reason to go along with that assumption?
This might point to a general issue of male vs. female psyche. Surely any specific case would have its own issues, but many men are willing to tolerate more pain and suffering than women are. Men retain their social acceptance in other environments, but women are likely to seek their social support through their homes and families.
“men are willing to tolerate more pain and suffering than women are”
Hardly. I think its because they truly think they are doing a terrific job, and are shocked (shocked!) when the wife has finally had her fill.
In today’s generation the woman are the one who works when starting life, instead of men. It’s one of the unnatural cultures, therefore it can cause to get a very Big Shot in a unnatural way and then -hard to give up!
I don’t know. Do they?
avhaben- do you have statistics to back up your assumption?
Any insight why that is?
Very easy to answer:- Because the women know, that they will always get custody of the children, receive child support, get to maintain the marital residence, so simply put:- they have nothing to loose.
But the man has everything to loose.
According to the National Center for Health Statistics, over 2/3 of divorces are filed by women. It became even higher (over 70% ) after no-fault was introduced. And the women initiation rate is lower in States that by law award joint custody of children, as opposed to awarding primary custody to the mother by default. Among college educated women it is 90%!
sam responsible seems to make a good point. I would attribute it to the failed expectations brought by feminism not living up to reality.
In a few situations that I know of, the woman just got sick of her husband not providing. Not that I am pointing figures, I never knew more woman initiate divorce. But in a few situation, the man had said would learn X number of years and then work to provide for his family but would not leave yeshiva and got comfortable living life a certain way. They were no longer being supported and the whole thing was too strenuous for the woman and she/they resented the husband.
Keep in mind that even in no-fault cases someone HAS to be the plaintiff. So even if both parties agree, someone has to file for divorce.
avhaben -“It seems that in a very large majority of cases of seperations, the divorce is initially sought by the wife. Any insight why that is?”
The reason I didn’t because I didn’t think it would be good for the kids.
A person should Never get divorced without a professional, eg. marital counsellor agreeing to the idea!
Its probably some fault of all the yeshivish kollel people.
Because men outnumber women when it comes to snoring.
because the men are crazy
One possible explanation (assuming the husband wasnt doing things he shouldnt be doing) is that women are emotionally inclined and need to have a strong emotional relationship. Many men are just fine with coming home, having dinner and watching football for 2 hours. Women need more time to talk and connect and have their emotional needs attended to. Women tend to forget less and if the husband does something wrong they immediately remember the last time similar situation happened.
This is a generalization so dont YELL AT ME if you are different. (Read John Gray’s book)
If a fellow had to pay for all the services a wife provides, it would cost him over $100,000 a year. Good deal I would say. So it’s the woman, the shmata, who generally has had enough of da bum and calls it quits.
men are procastinators
Because men outnumber women when it comes to snoring
Rimshot!
Actually, once a GUY went to file for divorce. He explained that he was there cause his wife sent him…
Hi Health.
You are totally wrong!
(Just kidding! Had to say that for old time sake)
Hope all is going great and you have a chag kasher v’sameach Pesach, as well everyone, too!
: )
90% of divorced female college graduates sought the divorce?! Wow. That oughtta scare anyone from marrying a girl who went to college…
I know the plural of anecdotes is not data. However all the divorces I have seen – besides two – were demanded by the wife. I somehow suspect that this was part of the Cheshbon for granting the power of divorce to the husband.
Now flame away…
divorces are usually initiated by the wife?
probably because they have husbands.
lebedik yankel: That’s a good point you make. While by the secular perhaps the wife typically files for divorce, by us the Torah doesn’t allow that. Only the husband can give a divorce. And he must want to give it by his own free will for it to be effective. There must be good reason for that, as we see what is happening in the secular world here.
BT guy -“Hope all is going great and you have a chag kasher v’sameach Pesach, as well everyone, too!”
You too.
and now for the best answer……the men realize the grass isn’t greeener on the side. this can only be understood logically and not emotionally.
Avhaben- what happend to you? You ask a question with an assumtion it seems without any data backing you up.
Naysberg:
A wife can ask for a divorce, she just can’t give one. So it would seem that the divorce process still, in some way at least, can initiate with the wife.
Also – only the husband can give a get, but the wife has to accept it. If she refuses, it can lead to a very long and messy process. I personally know of more than one man who was stuck for 10-15 years because the wife refused to accept the get. And yes, there is a heter meah rabbonim, but valid ones are very hard to come by.
Naysberg, Yes. Girls learning in college might lead to divorce! Men are created to be Professionals, and not woman.
One cannot fight hashem’s creature and nature, everyone should know that once and for all!!!
sam responsible: If someone were to forward that comment to the liberal media, you’d be getting death threats.
I personally think you’re wrong for generalizing, and even if you were right, where would all the kollel couples get their money from if not the wife working? (And please, please don’t say from the inlaws.) YOU try to get a job without some sort of a degree.
Because women usually get money in the settlement, and men usually pay money. Most divorces are simply a means of getting money.
I have heard that 70% of divorces were actually perfectly happy couples, until the wife got in her head that she could get money from him by getting divorced.
The reason is because when a man treats his wife like a queen she treats him like a king. If he treats her like a slave, she will treat him like a shamata.
If a woman doesn’t treat her husband properly, he should check his own behavior towards her. Therein will usually lie the problem (sure, not always, but most of the time it’s true.)
However, if a man doesn’t treat his wife properly, usually has nothing to do with the wife’s behavior towards him (again, not always, but most of the time.) And sometimes it’s just tit for tat, but if he will change his behavior towards her, that will change too.
I’m sure I’m not the only one here who is able to figure out which male posters treat their wives well, and which ones do NOT.
“Naysberg, Yes. Girls learning in college might lead to divorce! Men are created to be Professionals, and not woman.
One cannot fight hashem’s creature and nature, everyone should know that once and for all!!!”
Are you kidding me?! Please tell me how in today’s economy a frum, middle size (or even small!) family can survive on one income? When the frum guys start becoming cardiothoracic surgeons, we’ll talk. Till then- Appreciate the fact that women have sharp brains, go to college to further educate themselves, & alleviate some of the burden of support from their spouse. In order to get a decent paying job- you must have a college degree.
Can you figure out which female posters treat their husbands right and which do NOT?
computer777 – “If a woman doesn’t treat her husband properly, he should check his own behavior towards her. Therein will usually lie the problem (sure, not always, but most of the time it’s true.)
However, if a man doesn’t treat his wife properly, usually has nothing to do with the wife’s behavior towards him (again, not always, but most of the time.) And sometimes it’s just tit for tat, but if he will change his behavior towards her, that will change too.”
You just repeated yourself two times that it Is the man who usually doesn’t treat the wife properly most of the time.
Do you have any statistics to back up your claim?
I doubt it.
So if you want to be objective and I do, otherwise I could just say you’re wrong and you don’t know what you’re talking about, the most you can say it’s 50 -50. That means half the time the woman starts Not treating the man nice & half the time it’s the man!
From the cases I know of the answer is simple. The girl is more likely to listen to her parents, who are the cause of most young divorces.
you know its a very interesting topic among non-jews thats not true among jews because the wife usually has to deal with more with kids and now supporting the family while the husbands learn
Haleivi: You are absolutely correct. Meddling parents are the largest single cause of divorces. And they are so unnecessary and avoidable and sadly unfortunate.
Usually because the “Shvigger” has an ear (and full control) with her daughter and influences her, one comment at a time, resenting the fact that this nice boy “STOLE” her control puppet away from her and has the audacity to suggest his wife listen to him once in a while as well.
All these special Shviggers have a special place set aside for them after 120 (or earlier) on account of all the S’char they have accumulated over the years for breaking up Batei Neeman B’yisroel and hurting little hearts and ruining future generations from having healthy marriages due to growing up in broken homes having witnessed under the belt tactics done to their tatty or using “them” the innocent children, in their personal vendetta against an ex or future ex husband.
I cant speak for all, but for many I can. Disgusting!
bein_hasdorim – Believe it or not – friends can do the same thing as these Shviggers and it happenned to me.
I know of a woman with a beautiful marriage who had three close friends that were divorced. These friends kept telling her how wonderful it would be to get divorced and how horrible her marriage was. She pushed them off for a while, but they kept badgering her until they convinced her to get divorced.
Moral of the story – don’t be friends with divorced people.
Another possible answer to the question is the financial aspect.
OneOfMany -“Moral of the story – don’t be friends with divorced people.”
I assume you are joking. She was friends with bad people, nothing to do with their marital status. They got divorced for the wrong reasons and influenced the wife. In my case, the main instigator is married. Stay away from Reshayim is the Moral of the Story. And if you don’t know the difference – meaning you aren’t a good judge of people – seek guidance from Rabbonim & Rebbeyim/Morahs!
I wasn’t really joking. mermaid was obviously making the point that divorced people, specifically, will try to justify their state and will have a negative influence on your marriage. Which is ridiculous. Your case is irrelevant.
“Are you kidding me?! Please tell me how in today’s economy a frum, middle size (or even small!) family can survive on one income? When the frum guys start becoming cardiothoracic surgeons, we’ll talk.”
You have to consider it well, the pros and cons. If you see so many divorces mainly coming from college students, then it’s time to invest more on shalom bayis than to on the economy part.
National statistics maintained by the government clearly show college-grad women are far more likely to divorce.
I decided on a whim to check and see if what everyone is saying about college graduates is true. It isn’t. In fact, it seems that across the board, statistical sources show that the higher the level of education attained, the lower the divorce rate.
Think about it: if only for the reason I’m sure you all you naysayers take stock in – that people who attain higher education marry later/not at all – this makes sense, being that the sample size would theoretically be much smaller and generate a lower divorce rate. Which would be a function of sample size, making it inconclusive data. Which is why you should never trust statistics, and which is why I maintain that statistics are generally completely useless, and the refuge of the weak debater.
OneOfMany -“mermaid was obviously making the point that divorced people, specifically, will try to justify their state and will have a negative influence on your marriage. Which is ridiculous.”
Where did you get all divorced women? He/she was talking about a specific case where divorced women did influence the wife to divorce. So the lesson is – not to stay away from divorced women, but to stay away from bad people. Esp. don’t listen to people who offer opinions on your marriage. If you have questions regarding your marriage – friends & family aren’t the ones to ask. Now is the time for expert opinions, either Rabbonim with Sholom Bayis experience and/or marriage counselors!
I think that the issue with college-educated women getting divorced is that they do not feel financially dependent on their spouse. If there are other factors that might lead them to want a divorce they are not held back by financial concerns since they feel they can be self-supporting afterwards (not to mention they might get alimony).
Health, I just wanted to comment that, knowing how this is a difficult subject for you and seeing your personality on so many other threads, I think you are a very strong contributor to this thread in a positive way. Your points are well taken and on the mark.
777 – I’m not sure if it makes a difference with who starts not treating the other as a king/queen, but the results will be the same. If the emotional aspect of the marriage is ignored, then it will only be a marriage for financial reasons. What will they do once the children are all married off?
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