Why are Children from divorced homes treated as second class citizens?

I certainly can empathize with your struggle. I know how hard it was for my mother to raise us, before, during and after the divorce. I can understand how overwhelming your situation can seem.

Of course, no two cases are the same, and I do not presume to speak to your particular experience. I do feel a responsibility, however, both as the product of a divorced home, and as a Rebbe with many contacts in numerous schools, to protest the blanket allegation that “children from divorced homes are treated as second class citizens.” My experience has been the opposite. School administrations and Rebbeim/Teachers go out of their way to accommodate the specific needs of every student, especially those with challenging domestic environments.

Unfortunately, it is often the case that the divorced parents’ enmity causes them to sabotage their children’s experience in school in many ways. Perhaps this is the real cause of your troubles.

Welcome to cookie cutter Judaism

Move out of Brooklyn

Coffee Addict: However bad you perceive Brooklyn, outside of Brooklyn is much much worse.

Yes, the stigma is there. And it gets worse when the time comes for shidduchim. It is generally less out of town, but all depends on the attitudes of the local community and of the particular rebbe. Some rebbeim are sympathetic, others – who are probably less sensitive to children in general – can be difficult.

Generally, the smaller the community, the more accepting people are. Best to get out of the New York-New Jersey area, far from the operations of the “cookie-cutter” that is driving so many of our kids off the derech.

“But with that said, in the “very yeshivish” world divorce is still a stigma and treated as such.”

GOOD

The school, in an attempt to be helpful, might be trying to act as a parent, but it can’t because it’s a school.

Singlemom- I am very surprised to hear that. Are you sure that that is ths case or is it possibly just an inference you are feeling? With so many divorces these days it is not the stigma it used to be and most teachers dont think too deeply about it. Unless there are other compounding factors. Outside of NY the “broken home” isnt even as much of a shidduch deterrent as it ised to be so i cant imagine teachers hplding it against you.

That isnt to say your children are not getting negativity of some kind, i don’t know, iwould just be surprised if it was about this.

As a family law attorney who has handled divorce, custody, educational plans, etc. for more than 35 years, I agree with Singlemomof4.
BTW>>>this does not apply just to the frum community and their schools.

It is more work for a school to handle divorced parents than married ones. Communication must often be made with both parents using time and resources. Duplicative parent meetings, PPTs, etc. have to be scheduled. Kids that have divorced parents with shared custody often arrive in school without certain items and tell the teacher/administration: ‘I stayed at mommy’s last night and my science things are at Daddy’s”

Staff resents the extra time they must expend on these students and double parent communication…for which they receive no extra money. Often times they must prepare reports for the family courts, Department of Social Services, etc.
The frazzled single parent with custody may be overburdened and the kids come in unprepared, homework not done, etc.
That same single parent generally has a lower income than married parents and may not be able to afford all the supplies, etc. The teachers will try to save the children from embarrassment by reaching into their own pockets to provide things…but under or late paid teachers cannot do much of this.

The single parent is less likely to be able to volunteer time for school committees/PTSO/room mother, chaperone, etc.

AND: the single parent is less likely to afford tuition/donations to private schools/yeshivos.
Say what you may, the administration in most schools favor those children whose parents are able to write large checks and require no scholarship money.

When my eldest grandson was in 4th grade, he came home from day school and asked me: Zaidy, how come I always am given brand new books at school and certain children are given old beat up books? This favoritism by economic status is reprehensible. I pushed for required school uniforms including shoes so that there would be no social pressure on how to dress. Mrs. CTL runs a backpack program at the local day school. She and her committee raise the funds and purchase and distribute backpacks to all elementary students that contain the same set of school supplies, no student should feel ashamed or second class. The parents of means tend to donate the full cost plus of the backpack to the committee and make sure their children don’t come in better equipped.

We live in a cruel world of harsh economic reality. Teachers and administrators do see who is the child of divorce, who is a scholarship or free lunch student, what vehicle the child alights from at school and it does color the treatment the child may receive.

CT
You are describing a scenario that exists all across the spectrum and is inherent to a capitalist system. We have had the conversation about concierge practices. Isn’t it “unfair” that those with means can afford to get treated so much better in the health care market place?
I have seen a couple of instances where children of big donors got kid glove treatment when there should have been consequences. But I have put kids through multiple big name brooklyn yeshivos and I find , that for the most part, they practice the middos that they teach. I found that , for the most part, principals and teachers went the extra mile. Some of my kids who had issues at the time of divorce and acted out, got those same free passes bc the hanhala understood the circumstances and were willing to give them time.
BH they settled down and it worked out.

yitzchokm, you are absolutely correct! It is better for the children to grow observing parents yelling,screaming and being physically abusive to each other. That is how they will to be effective parents and fine candidates for
shidduchim.

MOM -“that’s definitely not the solution”

Why? Marriage is a Good thing. I never wanted to get divorced!
It’s always good to have a Man around the House!

Time for truth
Just curious,
If your daughter was married to a guy who beat her, you would tell her what? stay in the marriage?
Or if your daughter in law was found out to be having a secret life, you would tell your son to just go to counseling?
And if they took the obvious (and halchically correct solution) of asking for a divorce, you would tell your grandchildren to be honored to be the victim of bias because it’s for the greater good?

Health
It isn’t the solution bc
a) it wasn’t an empathetic remark and
b) those that have bias don’t change bc of circumstance. BH I have been remarried for many years and yet my step daughter (raised in a stable household) experienced this bias despite the fact that the divorce occurred in her infancy.

“In any event, when I was younger, I was told that there were homes that I was not welcome in and kids I could not befriend because my parents were divorced…”

Wolf: Who told you that you weren’t welcome and/or that you could not befriend?

Singlemomof4,
Divorce should be stigmatized because it’s a terrible option.

Most divorced families are not due to infidelity or physical abuse. As long as both spouses are marriageable material, they should remain married.

Yes, of course there are cases where divorce is the only option. But it shouldn’t be celebrated. It’s a terrible, terrible outcome.

It should be as stigmatized as abortion. Athough abortion is sometimes necessary to save the life of the Mother, IT SHOULD NOT BE CELEBRATED

singleof4,
every parallel
needs to be
absolute?

If ch”v ” you would tell your grandchildren to be honored to be the victim of bias because it’s for the greater good?”
My descendants are aware that we sacrifice
massively in innumerable ways for the greater good
That is what we yidden ought to do
Few others ,to my astonishment,share similar attitudes

The Beth Hilel says that divorce is permitted even if she burns his food.
They say if someone is so petty that he wants to divorce for that, then it is better to divorce because there is no future for this marriage.

Yitzchom
You don’t see a distinction between “celebrated” and mentchlikeit?
no one is talking about throwing a party. But frankly middos is dictated by torah and a requirement.
If a woman is required to get an abortion al pi halacha you should shun her? I don’t shun people for following halacha

Time truth
ever learned meseches gittin?
there are no red herrings here, plus abuse and infidelity is a lot more common then those who aren’t in the know think it is. Getting divorced is often a matter of psak, despite you thinking it’s a lifestyle choice. I can easily think of a dozen cases I personally know where the rabbunim involved pushed for divorce because of halachic abuse (this includes emotional ), and infidelity (both male and female). If you include one spouse becoming openly or secretly not frum that number doubles.

For those not involved in the scene, a Rav is AlWAYS involved before a get will be issued, therapy/counseling (sometimes years) is always required before a b’d will issue a get (at least by the batei dinim I am familiar with)

@singlemom. i dont know you, i dont know your child(ren), the school they go to, the teachers or the administration. in the school my kids attend, every teacher/rebbe, every year has called in advance of the school year, or reached out at the beginning of the year orientation to ask about any “situations” he/she should be aware of as it pertains to our child. we dont wait for that call, we preempt it by calling first and describing anything that we feel the teacher should know. does the teacher know, for example, that you may not always be available to assist with homework and your child either needs extra time, or to be excused from some percentage of it? the teacher might know your child is from a divorced home, but chooses not to discuss it with you, because you didnt discuss it with her (if it isnt important, or an issue to you, why should the teacher make it into one – and be accused of stereotyping kids from divorced home in the process). im not saying you are wrong, they are right, or any permutation of these options, all im saying is, have you ever considered where the other side is coming from? more importantly, have you ever addressed your concerns with the other side of the coin?

yitzchokm:

You seem to have amassed a rather substantial number of weird ideas and spewed them into the dialogue here in the CR. I wonder how you have the gall to continue this foolishness without shame.

One: You wrote: “Did you ever stop to think that the cookie cutter schools pushed 98% of the people to stay on the derech? Overall we’re a resounding success.” That’s a lot of hooey, and you know it. There are not 98% on the derech. You would have a major struggle with explaining what “on the derech” means, as no one truly knows what the “derech” is. If you are referring to manner of attire, stop right there. I know many, many people who dress the part, black hat, yeshivishe or chassidishe levush, and are simply faking it for the world. Your 98% number shrinks by much. Are you aware that of all chuppahs in Brooklyn, the estimates from rabbonim who know inside stories claim that about 4% of them involve one or both – chosson and/or kallah who are no longer Sho,er Shabbos? Our yeshivos are a resounding failure in promoting the Ahavas Hashem and Ahavas Hatorah that is a requisite of chinuch. Our kids get through the system believing that they “have to learn”, not that they want to learn. Those that “want” are pleasing others’ demands on them, not their personal desires. The rules and chinuch patterns have little resemblance to what the Chachomim instructed, and the concept of חנוך לנער על פי דרכו is all but obsolete in the cookie cutter system. We do far better at producing chassidishe and yeshivishe robots than budding Ovdei Hashem.

Two: You wrote: “Most divorced families are not due to infidelity or physical abuse. As long as both spouses are marriageable material, they should remain married.” Pardon, but your ignorance is showing. There are many other conditions and situations that render marriage nonviable. The Torah does not refer to either physical abuse or infidelity as basis for terminating a marriage. True, two spouses who want a marriage to work can often be helped to achieve that. But often, one is too enraged and hurt, and the work to reconcile requires two people. Your rush to generalize is not flattering to you, and you should first go get some experience in the field before spouting these statements.

No one believes that divorce is a good thing. It is the way to go as as the lesser of the evils. I have met many lay people who are apt to push for ending a marriage. That is not the case for the overwhelming majority of rabbonim, batei din, therapists, or other professionals. Rather, these people are apt to seek reconciliation or entertain the desire for “shalom bayis” of one spouse when there is no justification to maintain a failed marriage.

TLIK: You’re regard for Klal Yisroel’s heilige mosdos hachinuch and rabbonim is too low and your regard for therapists is too high. I, too, disagree with yitzchokm. I think his 98% on the derech rate is an underestimate. The on the derech rate in the Chareidi community is over 99%. Compared to certain other non-Chareidi Orthodox communities that have off the derech rates ranging between 25% and 50%, the Chareidi world is doing a remarkably successful job.

And, for the record, Halacha most certainly does refer to specific examples of when divorce is required and specific examples of when one spouse’s a request for a divorce may be refused by the other spouse. In fact, there’s a large part of Shulchan Aruch devoted to covering these laws. For example, Shulchan Aruch says that a demand for a divorce on allegations of abuse can be denied by her spouse unless it is proven with eidus. And then then it can only be mandated if he was already formally warned and continued anyways. If you disagree with those laws you’re disagreeing with Halacha.

catch
“Yet, everybody agrees that מזבח מוריד עליו דמעות.”

Relatively recent case I know of. Woman married with several kids loses her husband to a shiksa from the office. I’m sure the mizbeach is shedding lots of tears and not just for the marriage. But who has the right to judge the spouse? what did she do wrong ? and the kids?
Compounding one tragedy that the spouse and kids have to go through by creating more pain, that’s pretty evil. Kids lost a father that they will rarely now see (if ever) and rather then the kids being treated like yesomim with extra sensitivity people should treat them like pariahs ?!