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Hamas tells you what their ideology is and follows up on it while Democrats say they support Israel but continuously stand them in the back when Israel needs support. Democrat Jews are today’s bundists and bolshevists. If you vote Democrat you’re on the same team as the Squad Kamala and all the Jew haters who have taken over the mainstream Democrats.
Lakewhut doing the good work in changing hearts and minds on YWN lol
Lostspark,
Democrats have hearts and minds? 😜😂
Republicans for picking a presidential candidate who is a liar, con-artist, demagogue, lecher and sore loser, just to name a few of his positive assets..
To my knowledge Democrats have not killed anyone.
yechiell
All that you say is true but now that your brothers in israel are going through a holocuast and one party is more suitable than the other to help, no matter how rotten the man is, you still must vote for them.
“To my knowledge Democrats have not killed anyone.“
Of course, if MSM (which is on the democrats side) doesn’t report it, it must be true
Eliezer,
Some knowledge.
Democrats such as your hero, FDR, may he burn for all eternity, have the blood of six million Jews on their hands. He had large majorities in Congress for most of his terms in office and could have allowed significant numbers into this country. Instead, he wouldn’t even meet with the hundreds of Rabbis, led by Harav Silver, zt”l, who gathered in D.C. to respectfully beseech his assistance on October 6, 1943.
FDR was a virulent anti-Semite who despised Jews, just like every ardent Democrat.
Democrats support Hamas.
Hamas seems more honest with you or at least straightforward. Democrats keep giving me 300 reasons why Hamas does or should do what they do, most of them rarely even match reality. We’re at a point now where Gaza is the epicenter of women’s rights and even non-straight prime ministers of Ireland and other groups support them fully because of how progressive Hamas is in their fantasy world. How does one battle a world of myths?
Instead of Democrats I would right radical left democrats, bc most frum New Yorkers are registered as Democrats.
Radical Left Democrats are trying to destroy us spiritually
Hamas is trying to destroy us physically.
It is known that Antiochus was more dangerous than Haman, for Haman was aiming for olam haze, while Antiochus would get rid of our olam haba.I don’t support Hamas either.
Extremes are not good whether Democrats or Republicans.
היינו הך
Democrats because they hide their Jew-hatred behind their political positions. At least with Hamas you know where you stand. I’d rather deal with Hamas than a duplicitous phony like Barack Obama any day of the week.
Who was worse the Nazis or the Soviets?
The Nazis sure killed a lot but at least many survivors or survivor’s children ended up as Jews.
While the Soviets so thoroughly stamped out Yiddishkeit that how many generations of Soviet Jews know nothing, will know nothing & have no interest in knowing anything about Yiddishkeit?“Extremes are not good whether Democrats or Republicans.“
In other words “there are bad people on both sides”
At least trump was being positive 😜😂
Kuvult, as much as it makes sense to measure reshayim against each other (is there a gemora measuring Haman v Pharaoh? We compare Lavan w/ Pharaoh in Hagaddah, but somewhat rhetorically), Soviets were worse for multiple reasons.
First, way more victims of Communism – more than 100 mln if you count Chinese communists, see “Black books of communism” for details per country.
Second, they came earlier and made mass murder a reality (WW1 had a lot of people killed, but at least laws of war were mostly followed). They killed and exiled millions, including Yidden, while Germans were still having rock-n-roll in the 20s. Nazis came to power in response to Commies and were able to get more power in divided Europe.
Third, as you are saying, their effect on all people, including Jews, was way more profound. With all Nazi unimaginable cruelty, the horror lasted for several years. Those who were lucky to survive recall those years or even months (like Hungarian Jews) for years. Soviets affected Russian & Ukrainian Jews for 70 years and Litvishe and Latvian for 40. When you see Rusim in Israel or on Brighton Beach, these are people whose grandparents did not get Jewish education …
The Jerusalem Post has an article by Douglas ;Bloomfield dated February 12, 2024 writing that Trump’s support of cristian naturalism says to the Jews, you don’t belong in the US.
Eliezer,
The Jerusalem Post has articles on a daily basis writing about Brandon’s unwavering support of Israel’s enemies which says to the Jews, you don’t belong in Israel or the U.S. Just like your hero FDR who viscerally hated Jews and enabled the slaughter of six million.
FDR was influenced by a antisemitic secretary of state. Cordell Hall.
Reb Eliezer,
If Trump would be influenced be an anti-Semitic Secretary of State you would have his head for it
Enough with the excuses!
Eliezer,
FDR was a lifelong, arch anti-Semite directly responsible for the murder of six million Jews and you whitewash him by blaming Cordell Hull, whose father-in-law was Jewish? What’s wrong with you?
edited. And stop trying every wording option to get it through. It won’t.
Trump does not stand up against anti-semitists because he does not want to lose their votes.
Reb Eliezer,
Don’t you mean Biden because he doesn’t want to lose Michigan?
The Democrats are playing both sides with the Israel issue for votes. It’s common political maneuvering but they are doing it especially poorly.
As the saying goes, they stand for nothing and therefore fall for anything.What a stupid thread. It’s okay to make a point through exaggeration, but this is way over the top.
Why is the focus on the Democrats’ view of Israel here? I look at it from a different perspective – the physical threat vs the spiritual threat.
Unfortunately, I know of many Jews who frum, who were influenced by the Democrats. They now support abortion rights for all, support gay marriage, trans rights, etc. They still support Israel, but their grasp on Torah values is slipping, because of the Democratic Party.
I’ve always been taught that the spiritual threat is bigger than the physical threat. Hamas, if anything, has caused more Jews return back to Torah values. So I’d say that while Hamas may be a bigger threat here and now, Democrats are a larger threat in the long-term. Hashem will protect us from Hamas, but He allows us to make our own decisions – and with the Democrats, that includes the decisions to turn away from the Torah.Because if Democrats were even 10% as bad as Hamas we’d all be dead
I happen to be a registered Republican, but I know some very fine and ehrliche Yidden who are Democrats, some of whom are genuine Talmidei Chachamim whose erudition, I suspect, far surpasses that of anyone posting in the CR.
The premise of this thread is vile.
Daasyochid,
Hamas was mostly low profile until October 7th
Anyways it’s a comparison between apples and oranges
Yaakov said הציליני נא מיד אחי מיד עשו
The democrats are the אחי Hamas is the עשו (I know they’re yishmael, but you get the point)
I think something that is being misunderstood here
Lakewhut is talking about democrats in congress not registered democrat voters
This is how I understood him, not sure why democrats on this site and others think that he’s talking about democrat voters (whether on this site or not)
@lakewhut,
1. The idea that both parties’ platforms are at odds with Hashkofas haTorah, and that therefore the frum community should vote in its own best interest is a legitimate position (albeit one with which I personally disagree).
2. Many frum people who are registered as Democrats (and / or who vote for Democrats) do so because they consider the Democratic platform more in line with Hashkofas haTorah (YES, this is an eminently defensible position, again, despite the fact that I disagree).
@coffee addict, you should read the OP again; it clearly vilifies “Democrat Jews” (sic), along with anyone who “vote[s] Democrat.”catch yourself,
I understand Jews voting Republican. This is an eminently defensible position despite the fact that I disagree.
However, many American Jewish Republicans currently support the current candidate for President. This candidate after he lost the last election wanted to keep himself in power and have congress declare him the winner. Supporting Trump this election is not a defensible position. How can American Jews support a candidate who attempted a violent coup to overthrow the American government? In this cycle , he hasn’t and will not commit to admit defeat if he loses again. There are many eminently electable Republican politicians who pledge allegiance to the Constitution and to American democracy that are supportable for President.The excuse that they offer is “get over it”. Some of them actually want him to overthrow the government if he loses.
True catch yourself,
I tend to differ on that comment, people that voted for Biden couldn’t have known that he would backstab Israel
coffee> people that voted for Biden couldn’t have known that he would backstab Israel
Biden’s propensity to take wrong positions on international politics is well documented. True, one could not guess where he would go wrong – on Israel, Afghanistan, Russia, China or Iran. The perfect 5 out of 5 score that he has so far may not have been fully predictable, but at least 2 or 3 out of 5 was obvious. Whoever excused himself to roll this dice has no excuse.
Jackk, I have never supported Trump, and I still don’t.
That said, my larger point was that ALL of American politics is just that – American politics, and nothing more. No American political affiliation is inherently consistent with the Torah, and no American political affiliation is inherently opposed to the Torah.
A coherent Torah argument can be made to support voting for just about any American politician, including Trump, Biden, et al.
Coffee addict, it could be that the OP meant if you vote for Democrats in the coming elections.
My main point in all of this is that it’s a terrible mistake for Torah Jews to identify themselves in their hearts as Republicans or Democrats, or, indeed, even as Americans. This leads to an inevitable distortion of values.
Catch Yourself,
I agree with your position regarding Torah Jews identifying as Republicans or Democrats or even Americans and also regarding
no American political affiliation is inherently consistent with the Torah, and no American political affiliation is inherently opposed to the Torah.I would like to hear from you a coherent Torah argument to support an American politician who has shown his disdain for American democracy by trying to stay in power after losing an election. I don’t think that there is one.
There were some serious statistical abnormalities in the 2020 elections that the citizens of the US deserved to have investigated and explained. As the president of The United States at the time I expected President Trump to stand up for the country and get some answers.
It’s time that you set your personal agenda aside and think about the 100+ Jewish hostages as well as the thousands of Yidden who are putting themselves in danger to protect ארץ ישראל. You’re transgressing לא תעמוד על דם ריעך by voting for Biden.
Take out a history book and look what happened in the Middle East back in 1979. The US had by far the worst and weakest president ever in the White House (albeit he got bumped into third place by now) and what did he do during the Iranian Revolution? There were 50+ US hostages held for over 440 days. Carters indifference (or inability to do anything) is the reason why close to 50 years later Iran is still one of the biggest threats to world peace.
What happened the very day that President Reagan was sworn in and there was a tough leader in the White House that the terrorists were afraid of?
When Iran threatened Israel and Biden got up and said the longest word / sentence / paragraph he could remember without the help of a teleprompter (four letters plus an apostrophe)- what happened? The world laughed at him and Iran fired over 300 weapons towards Israel.
Do you think that Hamas doesn’t notice Bidens weakness and animosity towards Israel? Notice how they keep upping the ante for a prisoner exchange every time he stabs Israel in the back.
Do you think they’d have the same brazenness if the same president who brought Iran to the brink of collapse and left other despots shaking was back in the White House?
It’s time to “get over it” and vote for President Trump, the best and strongest president the country has ever had as well as the president who’s done the most for Yidden.
I’m not telling you to “get over it” as an excuse to vote for the only person who can even begin to undo all the damage done by Biden and Obama- there’s no need to excuse that. I’m telling you that because using “Jan 6th” as an excuse for everything in life isn’t going to get you anywhere.
You can accuse me of being in a cult (I am a proud Orthodox Jew) to get out of responding. But keep in mind that one day (hopefully many, many years from now) you’re going to be standing in front of the מלך מלכי המלכים (the leader of my cult) and you’re going to have to answer so difficult questions. You won’t be able to ignore the questions, השם will know when you’re lying and “because of Jan 6th” will not be an acceptable answer to a single question.
jackk, I don’t think you’ll find anything in the Torah supporting what Trump did. You may not find anything against it either. Democracy isn’t in the Torah.
The Democratic Party, however, has made several things part of their core beliefs which are 100% opposed to the Torah. I refer to same-sex marriage and abortion. Same-sex marriage is ALWAYS assur, and is yehareg v’al yaavor. It falls under the arayos aveiros, and is therefore one of the sheva mitzvos b’nei Noach, so non-Jews are obligated to follow it. Abortion, too, is one of the seven – it falls under murder. While there are cases where an abortion may be permitted (namely, where the health of the mother or another baby in a multiple pregnancy is threatened), that is not the Democratic Part’s view – they want it legalized up until birth.
Supporting the Democratic Party is against Torah values. No, the Republicans aren’t perfect, but they don’t directly go against things like the Democrats do.
To answer the OP’s question, I think Democrats vs Hamas is similar to Chanukah vs Purim. Hamas wants to kill all the Jews, they don’t care how religious we are. Democrats want to stop us from following the Torah. We are told that Chanukah was a bigger danger, because it was spiritual, not physical. The same can apply here.I’ll address the specific policy issues you raise below. First, though, I need to ask:
Do you really think that “Democrats want to stop us from following the Torah?” This assertion is not only without basis, it’s preposterous.
Comments such as these belie, at the very least, an astounding ignorance of history (Jewish history, American history, and world history) and a willful disregard of reality. They also undermine your own credibility, raising the possibility that you do not argue in good faith.
Now, to the issues: There is absolutely zero debate in American politics about the moral question of homosexuality; every American politician across the entire spectrum supports the idea of full equal rights of homosexuals. Even the question of same-sex marriage was only about whether the specific term “marriage” should be limited to heterosexual couples. Everyone agreed that all the rights and privileges of marriage should be extended to same-sex couples in a legal union. Conservatives (and, until about 2010, even many on the Left) just wanted that union to be recognized under a different name.
Likewise, virtually nobody in the country takes a view on abortion which would be in accordance with the Torah. The most extreme right-wing positions allow for abortion in the first six weeks of pregnancy, or in cases of rape or incest. Both Right and Left allow abortion contrary to the Torah; the difference between them on this question is quantitative, not qualitative.
It would be fairly easy to make the case that Democrat policies are generally more charitable and concerned with the welfare of all people, which is more consistent with Torah values than Republican policies which are more aligned with Midas Sedom. This is just one example of how Democrats can be said to be closer to the Torah than Republicans.
I understand the counterarguments on all of these issues. But that’s exactly the point; this is an American political issue, not a Torah debate.
Catch yourself,
What do you think the democrats view is on transgenderism? Do you think if a female that identifies as a male would be allowed into a yeshiva? Daven with men (and be counted in the minyan) etc.?
Anyways it’s a comparison between apples and oranges
Don’t be ridiculous. Apples are much more similar to oranges than Democrats are to Hamas
DY,
Did you read my post or just the first line?
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