Whos getting hurt most

Dear Simple,
Exactly! The Yeshivos you listed are for boys that did not have solid personal development (They were not ready to sit as an adolescent.) until they went to Eretz Yisroel. The other name brand yeshivos do not offer more than their American counterparts that they are drawing from.

Please a bit of humility, please. First of all there is a מצוה of וששננתם לבניך which required that דברי תורה יהוי מחודדים בפיך this refers to the entire torah. There are countless gemorah that mention the amount of תורה that must be aquired, the shulchan aruch pasken that to be called a talmid chochom one must have laernt רוב מקומות שבתלמוד
And most of all חז”ל tell us that when we come losid lovoh we will be asked did you learn chumash did you laern mishnayis did you laern gemorah מדרש מעשה מרכבה וכו’ . I ask you a personal favor if you wish to find out imformation to broaden your knowledge do not challenge the idea, just ask respectfully, it hurts me to see the challenge of basic facts.

Navy:

Humility? What’s your issue with that?

מחודדים בפיך is not a reference to the volume learned, but that it should be absorbed so that when queried you can respond. That’s the source for חזרה. You refer to כמות in terms of qualification to be called a talmid chochom. That is not the mitzvah. The mitzvah is to learn, not to become. Someone who has the breadth of knowledge can be the talmid chochom, and no one says this is not an admirable achievement. I am just saying that this is not a goal, but a perk.

We are also guided to have a varied experience in learning. Again, not with the emphasis on the number of megabytes.

n0m:

What are you referring to with “interrupted for the advancement of everyone else”?

Dear Little i know
How can we possibly be מחיוב to do חזרה on all the תורה in order that we should remember it, when we are not even מחיוב to learn it????

Dear The Little,
The statement you quoted is not a mishna. I trust you that being ready is an individual matter. If a learning boy is ready at fifteen, he can delay at least another ten years to continue his studies.

n0m:

“The statement you quoted is not a mishna. ”

It appears prominently in my copy of Pirkei Avos, 5:21. Does yours omit it? And why should your learning boy wait until 25 to get married if he is ready? Who is your support for your halacha on this?

What are you talking about? The 6th perek is an addition, as it begins, שנו חכמים בלשון המשנה. That is not true for the 5th, which is a bona fide, legitimate mishna. As with much of Pirkei Avos, the obligations contained are not strict halacha, but a guide. I am not going to obligate a boy to marry at 18 based on the mishna. But nor will I consider the mishna being followed when someone who is ready for marriage and postpones it for an extended time. I referenced the quote coming from the fifth perek for the obvious reason, but you decided to misrepresent it.

As for interrupting studies, there are guidelines of when one must stop learning for various mitzvos. That also includes an issur to learn lest one fail to fulfill the mitzvah on time. Granted, we are not dealing with either minutes or hours here, but rather years. For a serious learner, your argument would be that he should avoid marriage altogether, a la Ben Azai. I reject that suggestion, as there has not been anyone alive in our generations and many in the past who could be a Ben Azai. So it is about an individual judgment of when. Accepted. But the lengths you suggest seem grandiose.

it is a משנה מפורשת במסכת אבות פ”ה משנה כא

to continue ones studies is not a rashi and not a rambam, rather, it is actually a גמ’ קידושין כט:
however, if a recall exactly the words of the rambam it went as follows. וכתב הרמב״ם אישות פט״ו הלכה ב-ג
״האיש מצווה על פריה ורביה אבל לא האשה,
ומאימתי האיש נתחייב במצוה זו מבן שבע
עשרה וכוי. ואם היה עוסק בתורה וטרוד בה
והיה מתירא מלישא אשה כדי שלא יטרח
במזונות ויבטל מן התורה הרי זה מותר
להתאחר, שהעוסק במצוה פטור מן המצוה
וכל שכן בתלמוד תורה״. ״מי שחשקה נפשו
בתורה תמיד ושגה בה כבן עזאי ונדבק בה כל
ימיו ולא נשא אשה אין בידו עון והוא שלא
יהיה יצרו מתגבר עליו, אבל אם היה יצרו
מתגבר עליו חייב לישא אשה ואפילו היו לו
בנים שמא יבוא לידי הרהור״.

כדי שלא יטרח
במזונות ויבטל מן התורה
As a girl I don’t know the whole gemara, so maybe I am missing an important point.
But,
Most boys are being supported those first few years anyway.

Dear Opinionated,
I am not sure if most are being supported. Almost all are not facing budget gaps. It is not about the money. No matter what everybody says. Some of my Rebbeim were below the poverty level their entire adult life. Some have large families and teach in multiple positions. We have to consider that the basic workday (For the scholar.) according to the Rambam was three hours.

“In general rallying yeshiva bochuim to the cause. Even in a good cause. Specifically here, it means telling them to plan their lives in accordance with the holy grail of the shidduch crisis.”

They are the only ones who can fix the shidduch crisis.
The girls certainly can’t.
Are you saying that the benefits of a bachur being able to learn a few extra years in so-called peace outweigh the middah of chesed?

Dear Opinionated,
We are still waiting for Libby to get back with the data. I doubt their sincerity until then. So, all we have is an educated guess at a mathematical anomaly. If there really is one, (i. e. There are so much more twenty five year old girls available than twenty five year old boys.) there should be multiple solutions available. In the study of graphs, [as is the case with most mathematics] one number can not be changed, to achieve a solution. Changes have to happen in pairs. If there is a need for boys to marry younger, all the post high school boys that are employed, are the most eligible to fill such a need. Who has a harder time finding a shidduch; twenty one year old girl, looking for a learner or, twenty one year old working boy? Another question, how many twenty year olds, remain in yeshiva just for shidduchim?

Now, to your point. Assuming that there would be a need for bochurim to marry younger. One must stop his learning to perform a specific chessed. But learning precedes the acquiring middos. They follow naturally from responsibility and dedication, as people age. Also, Torah brings one to all these middos, as was discussed on some other thread. The learning of an independent mind, (One that is free is of external fashions and pressures.) is paramount and is not duplicated anywhere else in society. Not even computers. (At least so far.)

“Chessed is when it benefits a specific individual or community.”

The yeshivish/litvish single community

so what do you propose, that those boys should stop learning? what if his rebbe tells him he shouldnt go into shidduchim until hes a certain age? what if he wont learn as well once hes married? what if hes gonna go work and now he can only learn half a day or only one seder a day? what if hes still developing his chinuch in learning? you know for a FACT that its worth it to cut these essential years short? i certainly dont.

Eretz Yisrael and America are two different systems

Dear Opionated,
There is not one whiff of evidence, that putting more learning boys ‘out there’ will help anything.

I’m just saying that the boys should go to Eretz Yisrael at a younger age

Could be.