Home › Forums › Shidduchim › Who wants to be a Tzadaikes like Rus?
- This topic has 158 replies, 41 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 1 month ago by Mammele.
-
AuthorPosts
-
June 22, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1180181HealthParticipant
Avram – “And we want to base our decisions on what the goyim do why?”
If Goyim do something good, we Jews should learn from them.
The more marriages, the better. You think the way it is now is better, with all these singles?
March 23, 2012 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1180182HealthParticipant“In Nissan we were redeemed because of Righteous Women, and we will be Redeemed from this Golus because of Righteous Women.”
Women – Do you want to bring the Redemption? If you are 25 – 40 and are single – consider marrying a 40 -55 year old male. This will make you a Tzadaikes like Rus & bring the Geula closer!
April 12, 2012 4:09 am at 4:09 am #1180183name withheldMemberIf there were more men like Boaz, then there might be more young women willing to marry them despite the age difference.
At any rate, marrying an older man is not what made Rus a tzadeikes. In fact, most tzidkanyos I have heard of were married to men about their own age, such as Rebbetzin Kanievsky and Rebbetzin Scheinberg – one has nothing to do with the other.
I get the feeling this question is personal. Are you perhaps an older man wishing to marry a young woman?
April 12, 2012 5:25 am at 5:25 am #1180184moi aussiMemberI read all the comments, and I don’t think anyone mentioned that the Gemara says that an old man seeking to marry a young woman, is called a “no’ef” (lecher). I don’t have the source.
April 12, 2012 5:54 am at 5:54 am #1180185cheftzeMemberDepends how you define young. A man, of any age, has a mitzvah (or obligation) to have children and to marry a woman capable of bearing a child.
April 12, 2012 9:19 am at 9:19 am #1180186moi aussiMembercheftze, I’m not the one defining, the Gemara makes the distinction between young and old. If you’re male, you can look it up. As a woman, I don’t learn Gemara.
April 15, 2012 5:21 am at 5:21 am #1180187HealthParticipantname withheld -“At any rate, marrying an older man is not what made Rus a tzadeikes. – one has nothing to do with the other.”
You are mistaken. The Posuk in Rus 3:10 says that it was a Chessed to go after an older man. A Chessed is a Mitzva -so if you do Mitzvos it makes you into a Tzadeikes. I never said this is the only reason Rus was a Tzadeikes!
April 15, 2012 5:33 am at 5:33 am #1180188HealthParticipantmoi aussi -“I read all the comments, and I don’t think anyone mentioned that the Gemara says that an old man seeking to marry a young woman, is called a “no’ef” (lecher).”
The Gemorah does mention this and it’s brought down in S’A, but the reason noone mentioned it here is because you got the statement wrong. What it says is – that an old man should Not marry a Yalda. A Yalda is a young girl. This acc. to Halacha definition would be a girl under 12 y.o. Past that age she has a Chiyuv to get married.
I was advocating older girls should consider older men.
From above: – “If you are 25 – 40 and are single – consider marrying a 40 -55 year old male.”
April 15, 2012 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1180189moi aussiMemberHealth,
You have brought the definition of young girl (under 12), but you haven’t defined ‘old man’.
You say that a girl over the age of 12 has a chiyuv to get married. I know that a woman doesn’t have at all a chyiuv to marry, the mitsva of pru u’rvu is on the man.
April 15, 2012 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1180190popa_bar_abbaParticipantTo all the women out there who are wondering if this thread is creepy:
It is.
(This is my first post on it too.)
April 15, 2012 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1180191PatriMemberMoi aussi The definition of an old man is irrelevant as long as the girl is over 12 (and thus not a yalda), since the only problem is for an old man to marry a girl under 12.
And even if you argue a girl has no chiyuv to get married, she most certainly has a tremendous mitvah to do so.
April 15, 2012 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1180192moi aussiMemberPatri, why is the definition of an old man irrelevant? If the Torah makes a distinction between young man and old man, there must be a criteria defining old man. I would like to know what it is.
I don’t know if it’s a mitsva for a girl to marry, I think she’s advised to marry. In any event she has no chiyuv, so Health’s statement saying otherwise is incorrect.
April 15, 2012 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1180193147Participantalways here
and always on schedule
40 & 80 per the D’var Torah I heard in Shul today.
Posted 10 months ago #
& Guess what happened thereafter? Boaz passed away after 1 nite, leaving Ruth yet again a young widow in her early 40’s.
April 15, 2012 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1180194name withheldMember“To all the women out there who are wondering if this thread is creepy:
It is.)”
popa_bar_abba: I agree. Very creepy!
April 15, 2012 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #1180195HealthParticipantmoi aussi -“You say that a girl over the age of 12 has a chiyuv to get married. I know that a woman doesn’t have at all a chyiuv to marry, the mitsva of pru u’rvu is on the man.”
It would be helpful if before you post on a topic -you would read all the posts first! There is a Chiyuv!
From Previous:
“This is totally not true,… She doesn’t have the Mitzva of Pru OORevu, but there are two other possible reasons of why she has to get married. (S’A)”
April 15, 2012 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #1180196HealthParticipantmoi aussi -“Patri, why is the definition of an old man irrelevant? If the Torah makes a distinction between young man and old man, there must be a criteria defining old man. I would like to know what it is.”
This is a good question. Go ask your Rabbi and tell us what he says.
April 15, 2012 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #1180197HealthParticipant147 -“& Guess what happened thereafter? Boaz passed away after 1 nite, leaving Ruth yet again a young widow in her early 40’s.”
If your implication is – that it is not a good idea -you are mistaken. Once a person is eighty he has good chance of living a few more years. It is very unlikely that the nite of marriage that the man will die.
Boaz was an exception. His Tafkid in life was to produce Moshiach. Once he did that – he didn’t need to remain on this world any longer.
April 15, 2012 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #1180199avhabenParticipantMA: Why would having children (pru urvu) not be a mitzvah for a woman, if for nothing else than for assisting a man fulfilling a mitzvah? Its a mitzvah to help someone else do a mitzvah. Although I’d tend to think their is a fundamental mitzvah for a woman, in of itself, in having children.
April 15, 2012 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #1180200147ParticipantOnce a person is eighty he has good chance of living a few more years. ……….. You “Health” missed the mark of what i was relating. A good chance of a “few” more years [as you youirself state], but not a good chance of “many” more years.
Obvioulsy it is tragic that Boaz did not live to see his son.
April 15, 2012 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #1180201moi aussiMemberHealth, I don’t need to read all the posts to know that a woman has no chiyuv to marry.
Do you tell people to ask their rabbi when you have no answer? You can say you don’t know the answer.
April 16, 2012 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1180202name withheldMemberWell, Health, you still didn’t answer my question. Are you an older man hoping to marry a young woman? I think this whole thread is based on your personal desires.
April 16, 2012 3:41 am at 3:41 am #1180203HealthParticipantname withheld -“Well, Health, you still didn’t answer my question.”
Since when do I have to answer your questions? Some people think that if THEY ask a question – THEY must get an answer. Esp. since your question is more like an accusation than just curiosity.
But one thing I’ll tell you – that I came up with this solution because a lot of women are remaining spinsters.
April 16, 2012 3:45 am at 3:45 am #1180204HealthParticipant147 -“Obvioulsy it is tragic that Boaz did not live to see his son.”
You see what Boaz gave up for the Klal. He had the Zecus of having Moshiach come from him, even though he didn’t get to know his son. This, I guess, was more important to him.
April 16, 2012 3:59 am at 3:59 am #1180205HealthParticipantmoi aussi -“Health, I don’t need to read all the posts to know that a woman has no chiyuv to marry.”
Obviously you do need to read & reread the posts because I just posted to you that Woman Does have a Chiyuv to marry! This is what it says in the Shulchan Aruch. Whomever told you differently is sadly mistaken! Just because they don’t have the Mitzva of Pru OOrevu – they still have a Chiyuv to get married.
I think I’ve made myself crystal clear now!
“Do you tell people to ask their rabbi when you have no answer? You can say you don’t know the answer.”
In spite of your snarkiness -I wasn’t hiding the fact that I didn’t know, but since you brought up the question -it piqued my curiosity – so go ask your Rabbi and then come tell us.
April 16, 2012 10:33 am at 10:33 am #1180206moi aussiMemberHealth, Women are remaining spinsters, because men always want young women. They want it when they’re 20, and they still want it when they’re 60. You will argue that an old man seeks a young woman for procreation, that’s a good cover-up for their real intent. An old man has no patience for children, an old man wants a young woman to satisfy his physical urges (no’ef).
April 16, 2012 11:26 am at 11:26 am #1180207name withheldMemberHealth wrote: “Since when do I have to answer your questions? Some people think that if THEY ask a question – THEY must get an answer.”
Well, in a way you did answer the question. At any rate, it’s amusing that you say people are not entitled to answers just because they asked, when just two weeks ago you wrote:
“And I’m still waiting for one of these “angels” to answer Yes to the question I posted on the topic called – “Who wants to be a Tzadiekes like Rus?”.”
April 16, 2012 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #1180208PatriMembermoi aussi: You are incorrect on both counts. Older men often do want children, as is their obligation or mitzvah (though it is even true often with non-Jewish men too.) And they are correct in seeking to quench their physical needs. The alternatives to that are much worse.
April 16, 2012 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #1180209HealthParticipantname withheld – “Well, in a way you did answer the question.”
Indirectly I did by this – “But one thing I’ll tell you – that I came up with this solution because a lot of women are remaining spinsters.”
But I knew you would continue to attack even though you had your answer. People like you are very predictable. Not the way to act during the Yimay of Sefira – trying to find fault in others!
“At any rate, it’s amusing that you say people are not entitled to answers just because they asked, when just two weeks ago you wrote:”
“And I’m still waiting for one of these “angels” to answer Yes to the question I posted on the topic called – “Who wants to be a Tzadiekes like Rus?”.”
That question wasn’t obviously posted to anyone in particular, while you keep Hocking Me with your Naarishkeit!
April 16, 2012 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #1180210popa_bar_abbaParticipantReminds me of a Readers Digest anecdote.
So this 64 year old guy decides to take a science class at the nearby college. His lab partner is a young lady in her 20’s. He thinks that there can be something between them.
So he is at his doctor the one day, and asks his doctor (why his doctor? they’re not allowed to laugh at you) whether a 40 year gap should stand in the way of love.
Doctor: Why, are you interested in a 104 year old?
Health: When you tell me you would be willing to date an 80 year old woman if she could still have children, I’ll take you seriously.
April 16, 2012 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1180211moi aussiMemberYes Health, you’ve made yourself perfectly clear, but I still don’t agree with you. Will you spank me now?
You say that women have a chiyuv to marry, can you cite the source? I know that women are ADVISED to marry, not mechuyavot.
My rabbi has better things to do than to satisfy my curiosity. However, you can look up the answer in the Shulchan Aruch, and report back to us (if you wish).
April 16, 2012 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1180212moi aussiMemberPatri, does anyone say that an old man shouldn’t satisfy his needs? The question is, with whom should he do so, with someone close to his age, or with someone 20 or 30 or 40 years younger than himself?
April 16, 2012 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #1180213HealthParticipantmoi aussi -“Health, Women are remaining spinsters, because men always want young women. They want it when they’re 20, and they still want it when they’re 60. You will argue that an old man seeks a young woman for procreation, that’s a good cover-up for their real intent. An old man has no patience for children, an old man wants a young woman to satisfy his physical urges (no’ef).”
By your emotional response – I can only deduce either you are an older single woman or you are very close to one.
I am trying to keep this topic based only on Halacha and logic. Your posts here are Neither!
There is a big difference between s/o whom has “physical urges” & a “No’ef”! (A person who is Mezaneh.) But somehow I think you know this!
If you are a single gal around 35 -40 y.o. – don’t be picky and consider marrying s/o between 55 -60 y.o. I’ll repeat from above -Women have a Chiyuv to get married. Chazal say you can’t be happy unless you’re married -“Shoroy B’lo Simcha”. (Doesn’t mean every married couple is happy!)
A lot of bitterness in life goes away after marriage!
April 16, 2012 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #1180214PatriMemberHealth: When you tell me you would be willing to date an 80 year old woman if she could still have children, I’ll take you seriously.
That isn’t realistic. An 80 year old woman can’t have children. There’s no point in engaging in unrealistic hypotheticals.
April 16, 2012 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1180215popa_bar_abbaParticipantThat isn’t realistic. An 80 year old woman can’t have children. There’s no point in engaging in unrealistic hypotheticals.
There is. Because if you can’t even admit to it when it is impossible anyway, it kind of undercuts you.
April 16, 2012 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1180216popa_bar_abbaParticipantBillionaire Karl Wlaschek is marrying for the 5th time. He is 94 years old, and he hopes to have 5 or 6 more children, at the very least.
They aren’t revealing his bride’s age, but it is unnaturally high, based on the picture. We usually would see her being like 25.
Google “Karl Wlaschek marry”
April 16, 2012 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1180217squeakParticipantI would marry an 80 year old woman if she could bear children.
It would definitely give me a way to supplement my fixed income…
April 17, 2012 3:37 am at 3:37 am #1180218HealthParticipantPBA -“Health: When you tell me you would be willing to date an 80 year old woman if she could still have children, I’ll take you seriously.”
I never considered this and I don’t plan on considering it. I don’t think in the abstract. I know you must have been trained to think like this in Yeshiva. But I don’t.
This is a serious topic, whether you take it seriously or not.
And quite frankly -I don’t think you take anything seriously!
April 17, 2012 3:50 am at 3:50 am #1180219HealthParticipantmoi aussi – “Will you spank me now?”
This isn’t refined, lady-like speech!
“You say that women have a chiyuv to marry, can you cite the source? I know that women are ADVISED to marry, not mechuyavot.”
You were wrong before and you’re still wrong. Women are “Mechuyavot”!
From Shulchan Aruch – Even Haezer – 1:13.
April 17, 2012 5:00 am at 5:00 am #1180220OneOfManyParticipant*ahem* Issurei Bi’ah 21:16.
April 17, 2012 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #1180221moi aussiMemberHealth,
If you talk to me as if I were a pre-schooler (I’ve made myself crystal clear) I respond to you like a pre-schooler (unlady-like).
Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 1:13:
“lo teshev isho belo ish shelo techoshed”
a woman should not remain without a husband because of suspicion
Hilchot Issurei Biyah 21:26
“reshus le’isho shelo tinoseh le’olam”
a woman has permission not to ever marry
Reb Akiva Eiger
In a place where there’s no suspicion, a woman has no obligation to marry
April 17, 2012 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1180222NaysbergMemberThe Chofetz Chaim married a woman much much younger than himself. His second wife (I think it was her first marriage) was only niftar in New York in the 1980’s or 1990’s (and her kever is in Queens.)
April 17, 2012 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1180223moi aussiMemberHilchot Issurei Biyah
“shelo yiso zoken yalda shedovor zeh gorem l’znus”
an old man shall not marry a young woman as this will lead to adultery
Yevamot 101b
“k’lech etsel shekmosech ve’al tachnis ketata letoch beisech”
a man shall marry a woman of his age and not bring strife into his home
April 17, 2012 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #1180224popa_bar_abbaParticipantAnd quite frankly -I don’t think you take anything seriously!
I take peoples money very seriously. I will take yours if I get near it.
April 17, 2012 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1180226HealthParticipantPBA -“So he is at his doctor the one day, and asks his doctor (why his doctor? they’re not allowed to laugh at you)”
Oh, Medical Personnel laugh at people all the time, just we do it behind their back!
April 18, 2012 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1180227HealthParticipantmoi aussi -“Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 1:13:
“lo teshev isho belo ish shelo techoshed”
a woman should not remain without a husband because of suspicion”
Yes, this is the way we Pasken!
“Hilchot Issurei Biyah
“shelo yiso zoken yalda shedovor zeh gorem l’znus”
an old man shall not marry a young woman as this will lead to adultery”
Mentioned above previously -it says Yalda -a girl less than 12, not young woman!
“Yevamot 101b
“k’lech etsel shekmosech ve’al tachnis ketata letoch beisech”
a man shall marry a woman of his age and not bring strife into his home”
This was discussed on page 1 & 2 of this topic! Please read all posts before posting.
“Hilchot Issurei Biyah 21:26
“reshus le’isho shelo tinoseh le’olam”
a woman has permission not to ever marry”
The Rambam is a Rishon. We Pasken like the Shulchan Aruch.
“Reb Akiva Eiger
In a place where there’s no suspicion, a woman has no obligation to marry”
This means a town with No men or just Men whom can’t have kids. In other words bascially an all Women town.
So it comes out a Woman has a CHIYUV to get married!
February 20, 2013 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #1180229Torah613TorahParticipantIt’s only fitting that this topic be bumped.
February 21, 2013 3:32 am at 3:32 am #1180230HealthParticipantTorah613Torah -“It’s only fitting that this topic be bumped.”
Yes, I know – it’s a great topic – started by a great guy. 😉
February 21, 2013 5:40 am at 5:40 am #1180231☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantHealth, I have news for you; whoever reads this gets the creeps, and doesn’t think very highly of the guy who started it. It’s in your best interest that this topic NOT be bumped.
February 21, 2013 6:32 am at 6:32 am #1180232shnitzyMemberAgreed.
February 21, 2013 11:11 am at 11:11 am #1180233interjectionParticipantDaasYochid: true say!!
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.