Who are you? Who am I?

ICOT, I think I missed something because I have no clue what you are talking about.

bump

icot you are fine unless you mention that your last name starts with a K.

+1

Wait, that actually gets +2.

*kapusta*

ICOT, we have always enjoyed your posts. You have always been very helpful, informative, and funny. Although you may at times have done a little bit of “prying” it was nothing that would set off an alarm of “possible stalker”.

AYC’s case was a bit different. Although he was always a nice, helpful, thoughtful poster there were other things going on. I had hoped that this would turn out better but it is with a very broken and heavy heart that we must come to this conclusion.

The thing that tipped us off to him being a possible stalker was his vehement arguing against caution. It seemed to us, that he was deliberatly trying to quiet people like Jothar who were trying to warn the oilam about stalkers. We couldn’t understand how he could argue against it and the only explanation seemed to be that he himself was a stalker and was therefore trying to cover up for himself by saying that the dangers are exaggerated. If you recall, I called him Joseph during that argument which perhaps was going too far at the time. Believe me, it wasn’t just that one argument that caused me to make that accusation. Things had been slowly building up and there were a number of things pointing to it which I will not go into at the moment. After many posters pointed out all his good qualities I retracted and issued an apology. I had hoped that he was indeed not Joseph and not a stalker and that the CR would continue as usual.

Then the following exchange took place 2 weeks ago:

Jothar:

Just to make it clear again:

I have nothing personal against anybody. I’m just trying to stop cybercrime. As a father, the death of Leiby kletzky hit me hard. So when I spotted what looked like cybercrime, I had to react. The innocent kids (and adults) of the CR deserve nothing less.

AYC’s response:

And LEIBY a”h had Nothing to do with the internet. I AM a Kletzky. I’ve been affected by this summer in a very personal way and am still reeling from the loss. As well as other losses. (Btw, his great-grandfather whom he was named after used to say quite often that the only regret he has from surviving the war was that he was unable to die al kiddush Hashem…)

And I still believe that one should be cautious but not paranoid.

The hypervigilance is not healthy for anyone.

Am Yisrael Chai , who was already under suspicion previously, assured people that they need not fear giving away personal information because he/she was a Kletzky. He used the Kletzky name to try to manipulate people into agreeing with him. This is a known tactic in the world of manipulation and deceit.

When he claimed to be a Kletzky in order to back up his argument against caution, that was sort of the final straw. I didn’t notice that post at the time but another user did and took the initiative to look into it and then reported their findings to us. A Kletzky was shown AYC’s, post, and raised alarms.

AYC has been given a few days to establish his/her innocence once and for all. I had emailed him explaining the situation and asking for some sort of confirmation that he is who he claims to be. We were all hoping that he would acquit himself.

Sadly, he did not. Instead of cooperating, ayc did nothing but hurl invective and abuse at us for doing our jobs. It seems apparent that AYC was nothing but a fraud, as we suspected for a while. And we, like many of you, feel shocked, outraged, and violated. We trusted someone and our trust was abused.

The Coffee Room has lost its innocence and the cozy sense of trust it used to have, and for this we are all saddened. The rules of the Coffee Room state not to pry information yet in the course of conversations it is very hard not to divulge things here and there. Often we let things through such as ICOT’s examples above. Our goal is to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience for all. Unfortunately we live in a crazy world where that is not as easy as it sounds.

There are those out there who will, puzzlingly, disagree with this course of action. If you do not feel comfortable with the mods enforcing safety, feel free to leave. We have a job to do, and you are under no obligation to use this website. Thank you very much for your understanding.

And ayc, if you are who you claim to be and you out there reading this, please reply to my email so that we can have this resolved once and for all.

thank-you for updating us, mod42. possibly the reason why we MIGHT have all been fooled was because there are people out there who appear overly honest and sencere in order to over excentuate it, so that it covers up the crime.

42, thanks for your clarification. I do appreciate the effort you put into the CR. It’s a difficult, time consuming job and I’m sure you get mostly criticism rather than the thanks you should get.

What disturbs me is the negative tone the CR has taken. Negativity has always been ‘shouted out’ here, which is why I enjoy this place. Now, in the name of safety, no holds are barred.

Social engineering is a fascinating topic. (Perhaps I’ll start a thread on it). Teenagers tend to be too trusting and the internet is Dangerous. They do need to be saved from themselves and I agree we should all be keeping an eye out to keep them safe.

But the battering of one and all here (I don’t mean you, mods) isn’t the way to go about it. It’s just become fodder for those who thrive on hostile exchanges.

I hope you understand my viewpoint.

Wow! Scary! It is very disheartening to find this out.

Question, though. What’s to stop him from signing on with another name?

It is such a shame we have come to this point. Yes- it really makes me sad because this is such an indication of the infiltration of the “outside” world. just like it is getting scarier and weirder out there, and the news every day makes me scared to step outside sometimes,i guess CR has to follow in it’s own way- you know what i mean. it’s a chaval, and probably inevitable.

maybe as a kabala, all of us CR posters should try to keep our postings truthful to defy all outside influences to keep it the awesome, informative and SAFE place to be!

what a blow! i really enjoyed most of AYC’s posts…

It’s pretty pashut, I’m not sure why people aren’t “chapping”.

It’s not the masseh as much as it’s the kavanah. 2 people turn on light bulbs on shabbos. One gets off scot-free, the other gets skilah. Why? Because one was being misaseik when putting on his jacket, the other turned it on after eidim and has’ra’ah.

In English, willful intent to commit an aveira vs chance occurrence.

While the mussar seforim say to avoid all lies, casual lies like many of the accounts here (pba, zeeskite, etc) are done to KILL their ne’emanus on anything, and are clearly not for fraud. A lie said in order to defraud is much more malicious.

Eid echad ne’aman be’issurin. If someone says I am a rabbi and this piece

Jothar was me’orer a zehirus- people need to be careful about what they post, quoting the murder of Leiby kletzky HY”d as a sevara for the added zehirus.

AYC shterred the zehirus. He/she said no need to be careful. AYC was me’id on him/herself that he/she was a kletzky to give him/her added ne’emanus. She said, you can believe me on this issue, I’m a Kletzky. If this is sheker (and I am still being dan lekaf zechus that it is not, as per halacha), then it is eidus sheker and makes the person passul. I hope that rabbonim are contacted before any further actions are taken. Mesira is a serious issue.

I’m shocked, and personally hurt if this is all true. AYC??

Zeeskite, Not lies, fibs. You change your story so often that everyone knows not to take you seriously.

Baal habooze, agreed 100%. Many of us here are personally hurt. Mod42’s most recent post hit me hard.

chocandpatience_,

The CR is no longer the cosy, friendly place I discovered 18 months ago. That’s a shame.

I’m not sure if we have been reading the same CR. I have been reading posts here for several years, and there have always been mean spirited, flaming posts and threads with personal attacks, as well as warm, nice threads. I have seen a thread dedicated to banning posters based on their viewpoints (naming names), and instances of harassment against single posters. Why do debates on this one issue suddenly change the tone of the CR for you?

I once posted in another place I found through interactions on the CR, and very quickly a “troll” poster tried to reveal who I was (but s/he was completely off the mark) and asked me to send him/her an e-mail. Many threads here have a “weird” feel to them, with attempts to pry information out of other users. There has also been a lot of sock puppetry, not just from Joseph. I have kept a lower profile because of all of this, and even regret what small amount of personal information I did reveal.

All that said, I agree that witch-hunts are not the way to go. Randomly attacking other posters with accusations of stalking not only disrupts the CR, but it weakens the valid case for greater caution. My feeling for this is to encourage safer posting, and let the moderators do the rest. If a poster has a concern with something going on, it should be e-mailed to the moderators rather than spread on the thread. Most of this should occur behind the scenes. It’s interesting to me, however, that the opponents of greater caution are primarily the ones keeping the discussion going…

Avram in MD: Well put. Para 3 – my thoughts precisely, but expressed better.

“Why do debates on this one issue suddenly change the tone of the CR for you?”

I don’t mind debating. It’s the ‘random attacks’ as you put it. And all the name of a good cause, so can’t be taken to task.

im not saying you are joseph im saying youre acting like him

mod-42: thanks for your answer. it really is creepy to think that this can go on here. we’ve always heard that about sites such as facebook etc. but on a frum web site? wow! i guess i shouldn’t be surprised. we do live in a crazy world.

let’s just hope that the majority of the cr members are on the up and up.

Mods will make mistakes on these points too. But with the victim trail getting longer and longer, I’d rather the mods err on the side of caution.

RB: “42 – How is that done exactly? ” (=outside contact made between posters)

I’d want to know that too.

The answer seems obvious to many here, but I don’t know. There always was a rule about not allowing email addresses to be posted.

choc – I`m very curious.

Hopefully this will have a good resolution. But as a former victim of stalker Joseph, I am happy that the CR is finally cracking down on suspected stalkers. Too many victims have been hurt. I do think that where no email contact is known, it should be done, from now on, privately, and just announced afterward one way or another.The danger of Joseph is VERY real, though. If you don’t like the way the mods are doing their jobs, feel free to vote with your feet and leave. I would rather they err on the side of caution, until the known stalker is put away.

Jothar: ” But as a former victim of stalker Joseph,…”

every time I question why you are still currently, actively, still corresponding by emails w/ Joseph, my comment gets deleted.

I would like a response from you, ty.

how do you make HERE links?

If anyone else wants to be emailed, please start leaving a few more personal details. I’m getting bored. Too many sn’s getting blocked.