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Ubiq, in his jan 7 post at 8:59 pm, Joseph said preventing cheating required full time mashgichim
AJ
Fair enough (I searched “cheating” he said “cheat” so i missed it)Again though, it isn’t that they don’t trust the OU.
Lets use the tuna fish example. R’ Moshe requires each fish needs to be inspected for fins/scales. (Earlier Rav Henkin required the same) The OU under R’ Shachter disagrees and allows intermittent supervision based on chazakah that the fisherman doesnt want to ruin his trade and other factors.
As you can imagine , many “heimish Hashgachas” wont accept OU tunafish. Do they not trust the OU? Of course not, they just don’t accept their standards regarding inspecting tuna fish.
I can guarantee you that even the heimeshe hechsherim do not check every fish. They go basar rov , just like they do when it comes to packaged lettuce.
“I can guarantee you that even the heimeshe hechsherim do not check every fish”
So THAT is a trust issue. Because many of them claim they do.
AJ
do you see the distinction?Scenario A
OU – We feel checking every fish isnt halachicly necessary. We just spot check and rely on chazakas etc
Heimish Hashgacha – We trust that you do what you claim, but we dont feel that that is haalchicly enough.compare:
Scenario B
Heimish Hashgacha – We check every single fish for simanim
Consumer- ” I can guarantee you that even the heimeshe hechsherim do not check every fish.”“M’ikor hadin, based on percentages, reading the ingredient content on the wrapper or box is good enough. I heard this from a Torah giant many years ago.”
Clearly a Torah Giant who knew neither Hilchos Taaruvos, not Food Science.
Neville, what other hashgachas besides the OU do you consider MO? Star-K? OK? Chof-K? KAJ? Those are the ones I think of as mainstream.
Previously I’ve mentioned the yellow stickers on bagged salads. I gather this is considered a heimishe hashgacha (correct me if I’m wrong). Yet I’ve seen it on salads that the Star-K deemed too infested to certify. That’s the case when there’s no Star-K inkjetted near the date code on salads that normally have the Star-K.
“I’ve seen it on salads that the Star-K deemed too infested to certify. That’s the case when there’s no Star-K inkjetted near the date code on salads that normally have the Star-K.”
I don’t believe that your assumption that the Star-K deemed those packages too infested is accurate. The lack of their inkjet does not indicate such; they didn’t inspect it altogether because it was known the other hashgacha would inspect those batches.
Ubiq, i appreciate the time your taking and i believe i understand your point. My issue is the use of the word cheat. In the tuna example, if the heimishe wants to check every fish because they won’t accept a tuna acceptable to the OU, then it’s not an issue of cheating. Last i checked, Twizzlers doesn’t use tuna.
So, here is the question Joseph keeps dodging around and refuses to answer. What proof do you have , specifically to this product, that the heimishe hashgacha is willing to hire full time mashgichim to prevent cheating? Do they do the same for all their products?“they didn’t inspect it altogether because it was known the other hashgacha would inspect those batches.”
This is a nice sevara. It isn’t true. In fact, I know family of the sticker that wo t eat the salad without the, star k.
AJ: Get over it. You need to read the comment in context. What I’m saying is that the standard of that particular heimishe hashgacha is to not rely on trusting a non-Jewish food producer such as Twizzlers without a mahgiach observing the process for its full run. OU doesn’t have that standard, which is fine. But the second hashgacha for the limited run indicates a different standard of kashrus was applied and observed for that run that has the second certification.
Kapish?
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