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My son is approaching 1 year and we are getting ready to switch him to regular milk. How do you deal with the kosher aspects of it?
If I serve a meat meal, do you give milk either before or after? Do you serve it with the meal? If so, how do you wash the cups/utensils?
We have the added challenge of my son having a high chair that sits at the table . We have a Stokke Tripp Trapp which I love (http://www.stokkeusa.com/tripptrapphome.htm) and have meat/dairy mats (http://www.kiddopotamus.com/p_tiny.php) on the table. This basically means that it would be easy for him to throw meat or milk onto the regular table and have it splash/mix with the rest of the stuff. Do you give them water at meals then and milk after?
When do you start having them wait between milk and meet? 3?
Just curious what you all do.
Thanks for the help.
SJSinNYC: The CR members are not rabbi’s as i’m sure you realized it.I would advise you to ask you own rabbi or mentor. Especially that you are MO which i think most ppl. here in the CR are more the yeshivishe type being that this web site name is “theyeshivaworld.com”
I thing that even when one is not yet chayav in chinuch, (which could kick in at age 3, 5, 7 depending on which mitzvah) and don’t have to stop a kid from being over an issur, you still can’t actively make him do an issur. So if I am correct then I don’t think you can serve him milk at a meat meal.
In terms of waiting, my husband asked s/o and was told (again, I think don’t take this as halacha) in the begining not at all just have a drink, something to eat in between, whe they are a bit older an hour and then at a certain age to wait the whole 6. I can’t remember the ages.
We give rice milk to the kids.
milk intolerances not allergies. We use the organic enriched. when the kids get a little older we introduce milk and other dairy products.
in my house we give the kids rice dream together with meat. my siblings all try to hold off their kids for at least an hour before giving them milk, but my brother asked and was told that if he really must, he doesn’t have to wait. we never give milk together with meat, though. don’t know the halachos.
I will not “pasken” for you or anyone else. I believe that chinuch starts from before the time the baby is born (don’t we even say that the malach is teaching Torah to the fetus…?). So from the prenatal vitamins that I took through today, my kids were taught what was and was not permissible. I never allowed them to have milk right after meat. When they were infants and breastfed,it was not a problem because breast milk is pareve. But once they were old enough to have milk products, they always had a separation, even if was only an hour for the very young, and then the regular amount of time when they were about three. I taught them that they could have juice after their chicken, or water (we didn’t have rice dream or the like then, but ewwww). If they wanted a bottle or cup of milk, tehy had to wait. I therefore tried to always give them the milchigs first, so it would not be a problem.
It is for the same reason, that I put yarmulkes on my boys from VERY early ages, before they could really even talk. Unlike my friends who could not keep a yarmulke on their sons’ heads, my boys were so used to it being on them, they never threw it off. My son and daughter-in-law chose not to follow my example, and they are having a lot of trouble with getting their two year old to not want his milk after fleishigs, OR to let them put a yarmulke on him. He is soon going to have his upsherin, and will not let them put on the yarmulke, even one decorated with his favorite character from Sesame Street. We bought him one with his name on it. He played with it and then put it down.
Kids are NEVER too young to bee xposed to Torah in a way to which they can relate.
oomis
actually, for your info: breast-milk is not even kosher. never mind parve.
am i missing something here? kids younger than 1 are given non-kosher milk?
…….
Moshe Rabbeinu wouldn’t even have milk from an Egyptian nurse…
and about chinuch…someone came to (i think it was) R’ Chaim Shmulevitz and said my son is three, at what age do i start him in chinuch? the R’ replied, youre 3 years too late.
brooklyn19, actually breast milk is kosher. An infant is allowed to breast-feed even from a non-Jew although it is not recommended because it is mitamtem halev. Moshe Rabbainu refused to feed from mitzri women because the mouth that was destined to speak with the shechina shouldn’t drink from a mitzri. The Halacha applies this to every Jew. There are two reasons given, one by R’ Yaakov Kaminetzki and one by R’ Shach (I can’t remember which is which). One is that every parent is michuyav to bring up their children as if they were Moshe Rabbeinu because everyone has the ability to be a gadol like Moshe. The other reason is that just as Moshe spoke to the shechina we all speak to Hashem every day when we daven and say brachos so it is improper for a Jew to breast-feed from a goy.
It is assur for an adult to drink directly from the breast (it is comparable to drinking from a sheretz) but it is muttar to drink (and parve) once it is separated.
you sure about that? i always thought it was unkosher. i gotta check this one up.
chofetzchaim
i stand corrected. breast-milk is 100% kosher and parve. :} lol looks like you know a thing or two – trying to live up to your namesake?!
Its been a long time sinse I’ve had to deal with these issues, but as I remember, I didn’t give my children milk with a meat meal. They drank juice or water. I don’t remember how long they waited until they could have milk. We used soy milk when they NEEDED milk. Usually it was maked into chocolate milk for them with some syrup.
We always did soy milk in our house and then wait at least one hour before giving milk to kids. Ask your rabbi as it seems that you don’t usually do what most of us do.
“oomis
actually, for your info: breast-milk is not even kosher. never mind parve. “
As more learned people than I have already shown you, you are not correct. But that’s ok, it took me a while to believe that breast milk is really PAREVE. How did I find out? Some expressed milk in a bottle accidentally fell over in the fridge onto some fleishigs that I had not covered, because I was serving it momentarily. I asked a shailah, and found out it was not a problem whatsoever, because the milk is pareve.
oomis, that’s so interesting that you put on a yarmuka at such a young age. My husband’s family puts it on from after the bris and I find it so interesting. It’s supposed to be a segula for yiras shamayim. Is this a common minhag?
the “segula” itself is not a minhag–that IS the primary reason why boys wear yarmulkes. but putting them on boys at an age below 3 is (im assuming) a minhag, though i havent heard about it till now
BTW, I non-kosher food is metamtem es halev so I think that is one mitzva that should ideally be kept from the youngest age possible.
I never put it on for any minhag, though I did put it on them for their brissim. I just reasoned that the sooner you accustom a child to something, the sooner that child will accept it as natural. My boys were so used to the idea that a kippah and whatever we used to keep it on, was part of them, they never balked at wearing it, neither did they pull it or the clips off, and they always kissed it and put it back on, if it fell off for some reason. My ainekel will NOT allow a kippah on his head, and he is kinehora two and a half. I won’t give my kids mussar about it, but it does bother me. YArmulke means Yarei Malkah (has awe of the King, Hashem). The kippah is a reminder to men to have that feeling of awe all the time.
It is SO easy to keep kashrus with young children, there is no excuse not to, IMO.
I never put it on for any minhag, though I did put it on them for their brissim. I just reasoned that the sooner you accustom a child to something, the sooner that child will accept it as natural. My boys were so used to the idea that a kippah and whatever we used to keep it on, was part of them, they never balked at wearing it, neither did they pull it or the clips off, and they always kissed it and put it back on, if it fell off for some reason. My ainekel will NOT allow a kippah on his head, and he is kinehora two and a half. I won’t give my kids mussar about it, but it does bother me. YArmulke means Yarei Malkah (has awe of the King, Hashem). The kippah is a reminder to men to have that feeling of awe all the time.
It is SO easy to keep kashrus with young children, there is no excuse not to, IMO.
oomis1105,
Thanks, maybe when it comes time for me to do it iy”h I’ll find it easier :). I think it always bothers parents when their children don’t do something that is very dear and important to them. It’s good that you don’t make an issue out of it though.
I remember when my brother was about four years old and I was nine, he wanted ice cream after a fleishig meal. My parents finally gave in after he threw a tantrum. Then they had to deal with MY tantrum, because I said it wasn’t fair- if I had to keep kosher, so did he. They said he was too young to understand, but I was convinced it was because they just couldn’t deal with the screaming anymore 🙂
oomis, have you ever actually tried rice milk or soymilk? It’s very tasty. I switched over to soy a few years ago, and I can’t even drink regular milk anymore because the soy is so much better. I especially love it in coffee.
How do you deal with the soy aftertaste? I found out I was intolerant to regular milk and I just couldnt stand the taste… it tasted spoiled.
SJSinNYC,
I thought I remember that you’re a yekke, no? Why do you wait 6 hours?
There are a couple of things you can use for the kippahs. One is “Kippon” (velcro strips for Yarmulkes). Another is the same little combs that are on wigs,that open and close, and are very narrow, can be sewn onto yarmulkes. They are actually making yarmulkes with this already on it. I ahve used both, and when the were around three or four I also was able to use the clips or bobby pins, because they were so used to the kippah, they never tried to remove it. I am NOT recommending that practice to anyone else, you are right it could pose a choking hazard. You have to know your child.
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