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If you look at photos of yeshivish Jews from 30 or more years ago, you will notice that men’s hats were not always black and much smaller than the black hats that are worn currently. In particular, big black hats have gotten expensive. Modestly sized felt or wool fedoras are available at prices much lower than the Borsalino that seems to be de riguer today. When did frum hats get so big, and why? And, given the expense, why not downsize?
They started getting bigger about 30 years ago. They’re getting smaller now. You should have started this thread 30 years ago.
Maybe because houses and shul got bigger.
Closets too. More storage to fit those hats.
Maybe also heads got bigger.
With more access to food and such. Maybe hats are less heavy now that bones are stronger.
Aren’t the children of immigrants often taller too?
huju, and when did Sephardic men stop wearing turbans? Shouldn’t they go back to turbans, being they’re cheaper than Borsalinos?
It could be that some wear fedoras and some homburgs. Many fedoras are larger than the homburgs and thus you might have thought they have gotten bigger. I could be mistaken, but I think it is a valid point.
This thread is all mixed up.
It’s chassidish ladies who wear turbans.
And black hats are shrinking these days, their brims compressing to precariously thin proportions, as prices rise in inverse increments.
What happened to that poster looking for a hat in Lakewood?
Maybe he can clue us in, as he seemed to be investigating hats
I thought any mention of a hat brought an automatic response from Charlie Hall about a fedora.
brims on hats are getting SMALLER today with added designs like feathers or needle that used to only be on hats that werent fetedoras
Apparently, the hat malach has been eating too much cholent.
huju, It’s called fashion. If Joe Borsalino decides to make a wider brim, within about 3 years all bochurim will be wearing wider brims.
Maybe people’s heads have gotten bigger.
“If you look at photos of yeshivish Jews from 30 years ago.. “
30 years ago they were called frum Jews.
I don’t “yeshivish” was used then.
yitzy99, of course ‘Yeshivish’ was used then.
The only change is that fedoras became more popular as a dress hat, which began when hats started to go out of style (attributed to President Kennedy losing his top hat for his post-swearing in walk down Pennsylvania Avenue). Since they were a “dress hat” (fedoras were traditionally an un-dress, weekday hat), they tended to get nice. Other hat styles seen in the community (Streimels, Homburgs) are unchanged. In the past, people wore caps more often, but they were never Shabbos-dik (and remember, the pictures you see in the past were of weekday hats only, for obvious reasons). Also most frum Jews tend to be more affluent, and dressing better is part of that (in the past they were dominated by diamond workers and sweatshop workers, now we have lots of lawyers and accountants)
Because more people realized that they’re really dressing to stand before the King and decided to boost their kavod to a wider brim
Because of the Eiruv. Is that not obvious?
No, people don’t buy BECAUSE it’s fashionable. But you buy what’s available, which happens to be what’s in fashion.
On the subject, is it true that bochurim in Chabad yeshivos davka wear hats with smaller brims?
It’s simple, with smaller hats you become tanned & if you are tanned, people will think you haven’t been spending all day inside studying. Solution: bigger hats.
I think zusha wins an award. That was a pretty awesome answer!
Actually, I was a bit bothered by it. I am not sure if this is how he meant it, but it sounds like it could be implying that Yeshiva bochurim aren’t really learning. Maybe that wasn’t how it was meant, but it seems to me that it could be taken that way.
I didn’t read it that way.
I read it that if a Yeshiva bochur (who obvious studies) walked around, esp in Israel, with a smaller brim, then he could tan easily and quickly (like just the walk to shul in the sun) and thus no one would believe that he spends all day studying.
But now that I read it the way that you thought that it was, it’s like that picture with the Vase and the Two Faces.
I only saw a Vase. But then someone points out the Two Faces. Life is never the same afterward.
Don’t worry Lilmod Ulelamaid I didn’t mean it that way! I meant it in the lighthearted way that they do it so no one could get the wrong idea 🙂
k – sorry for misjudging you – I wasn’t sure how it was meant and realized it could be meant either way.
New product idea: A “reverse sunlamp” that makes you paler.
I like bigger hats, since they protect against the sun better. Small hats with barely any brim don’t really serve much of a purpose.
Perhaps bigger hats have also become more popular because they are a bigger statement against assimilation. A small hat suggests you’re trying to be lower profile. A big hat suggests you don’t care about sticking out with your huge headwear, since you’re proud to be a frum Jew and totally out of step with American popular culture. The more loud and distinctive to Jews the hat is, the better it is in terms of assimilation and group pride. (I guess we can’t take that principle too far — otherwise we’d be wearing gigantic top hats with huge neon yellow stars of David all over them.)
Also, the Lubavitcher Rebbe’s use of a big wide hat for decades may have influenced even non-chassidim to adopt similarly full-sized hats. Reportedly, asked by a chassid whether the chassid should wear a traditional chassidic-style hat according to his specific local minhagim, the Lubavitcher Rebbe replied that no one nowadays is going to be impressed with such a hat — just wear a Borsalino (a basic dressy hat that at the time (a few decades ago) was the mark of a respectable middle-class person in America).
Bigger hats do offer more sun protection.
Are bigger hats more likely to go airborne?
Do any of these bigger hats come with those side straps that wrap under the chin, to prevent them from flying off?
If you look carefully at the photos of some Chassideshe courts from the Alte Heim, the Shtreimlach have actually been getting smaller over time from the much large ones worn by Polish nobility; most likely because the cost of fur has been rising as a result of the Endangered Species Act and a recognition that the smaller Shtreimlach provide a smaller profile target for some antisemitim throwing snowballs.
Big or less big, maybe hats today have more safety features, like cars.
One should note that the “dress” fedora came into existence when Americans stopped wearing fedoras as part of regular male clothing. That would have been in the 1960s. Before that, fedoras were an un-dress hat, or as we call it a weekday hat. Americans are apparently starting to wear hats again, and one wonders if the growth of small non-fancy fedoras will impact on out choice of hats (perhaps shifting more to hamburg or even back to top hats???).
A dress hat among Orthodox Jews would tend to “big” since we don’t use cars on Shabbos, and the argument against a big hat is its inconvenience in cars or other motorized transit.
Big hats are also inconvenient in crowds
they getting smaller and smaller
It seems to me streimlach are also getting bigger the old streimlach look like fur donuts, today they’re essentially small tires with elegantly up swept fur.
Gadolhadorah, when was the last time you’ve seen a shtreimel? Today they’re bigger, taller and higher than any noble has ever worn, guaranteed.
There is an old Texas expression, “all hat, no cattle” that was meant to disparage those faux cowboys who tried to use a wide-brimmed Stetson to establish their credentials. I don’t think that was ever an issue within the frum tzibur since the size of Borselinos or Shteimlach was never highly correlated with lamdus or gadlus.
Akuperma mentions that today’s streimlach are unchanged. Really? Today’s streimlach don’t look at all like those of 40-50 years ago. The older ones were much flatter, not trimmed or teased up, and the crown often protruded above the the fur brim. Modern (yes, modern) shreimlach look like a bad haircut.
they getting smaller and smaller
I said that almost five years ago
Huju:
1. Kashya oif a maysa. They get ruined in the rain.
2. They take them off when they daven. Also, now raincoats with built in hat sized hoods are ubiquitous, and plastic bags over hats are no longer common.
Why would it work for the beavers but not for the Litvish? Borselino by Attica (model no. 238) is a 100 percent beaver felt hat which should keep its shape even in the rain.
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