When a child eats traif.

1. No, she doesn’t know better. You took her somewhere, and you were eating, so she ate.

2. Don’t you know better than to take her somewhere where there is kosher and non-kosher food? You should only go there if they will be serving only kosher food.

Next time ask your relatives to serve only kosher food to avoid the mistake. My father’s non-Jewish friends used to do that for us.

Just a word of caution: When things like this happen it’s not uncommon for the parent to feel guilty, and if you’re not vigilant you might subconsciously project that guilt onto your kid. I’m sure you’re a good parent, just be careful about that. You don’t want to hurt your kid.

Your kid made a mistake. And I think you realize you did, too, because it really is a VERY bad idea to eat by someone who is serving both kosher and non-kosher food, though I am sure he was very well-intentioned to get a kosher grill for you. Whenever we visit my husband’s family, I always bring the main food. They buy fresh paper goods and plastic ware, which we open up, and any OU or other acceptable Hashgocha items (like potato chips, soda, etc.), and fresh fruit and vegetables, which we cut up with plastic knives.

far east -“pba and csar- sometimes its not so simple to just “not go” to some places…especially when its a close relative like your brother. And if your not in MS_DC’s situation you cant judge him like that.

That being said, she must have not known better or she wouldnt have eaten the hamburger. I wouldnt beat myself up if it was my kid. However next time the situation arises, be ultra careful and help your daughter understand why its important that she eats different food then her cousins.”

I totally agree with PBA. If non-kosher food is being served and it’s not a formal setting where e/o gets their own portion, then all the food has to be kosher. The child did nothing wrong. A 7- y.o. can’t be held responsible for eating Treif when it’s right in front of them. So either you want to be Frum or you want to be part of your Freye family. If they want a relationship they have to accommodate you in non-formal settings. Blaming the kid for your failure isn’t going to hold water in Shomayim.

Health- I can’t believ those words are coming out of a frum jews mouth. ” either you want to be frum or you want to be part of your freye family”…. “if they want a relationship they have to accomadate you”

Have you no sensitivity towards others? What happened to loving your fellow Jew, frum or not frum, yarmulka or no yarmulka… Let alone your own biological brother! Do you think your first class and Jews who aren’t yet shower Mitzvos are second? Wouldnt you want a relationship with your brother regardless of his personel lifestyle?

Frum Yidden need to keep a distance from non frum (even family) and goyim.

Shlishi – “Frum Yidden need to keep a distance from non frum (even family) and goyim.”

And so, the heilige godol has paskened that Rav Noach Weinberg, zt’l and all of his followers; The Lubavitcher Rebbe, zt’l and all his followers; R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt’l, and all his followers; R’ Aryeh Levin, zt’l and all who were inspired by him, and many more gedolim, and every single frum Jew involved in kiruv, and every single Baal Tshuva who has not cut off his or her family is transgressing by not keeping “a distance”. Feh.

As for the goyim – Dovid Hamelech and Shlomo Hamelech not only used non Jews in their armies (as did pretty much every king of Yehuda, both those who were considered holy (Asa, Yehoshaphat, CHizkiyahu, etc.) and those who were not. And Shlomo Hamelech even brought non Jews from Chiram Hamelech in Tzor to help build the Beis Hamikdosh. Numerous Rishonim worked closely with and for Non Jewish princes and kings in pre-reconquista Spain.

DO Frum Jews need to maintain their standards of observance wherever they go, YES! even at a BBQ with family, and it is 100% the parent’s responsibility to ensure that. If they can’t or won’t take that responsibility, they shouldn’t go. But they can, and they should. Do frum Jews need to maintain their standards of observance when they go out into the workforce, and encounter non-Jews? YES! and do you know what? when it comes to things like kosher food for meetings or trade shows, my experience has been that non-Jews have been very respectful and incredibly accommodating.

Of course, one would actually have to be out in the workplace earning a living to discover that.

Frum yidden need to understand that HKBH put them here to have a hashpo’oh on other Jews, and on the whole world, not to hide themselves away, squeeze their eyes shut, mumbling “go away, go away, go away!”

Frum Yidden need to keep a distance from non frum (even family) and goyim.

Then how would you expect the non-frum family to have any idea how welcoming frum Jews can be?

What kind of shtus are you making up here?

I know so many people who became frum a little later in life. Are they supposed to say ” ok mom and dad thanks for all you have done for me but I am cutting ties with you, bye!” ofcourse not! I have family that isn’t religious in the least but they have a kosher grill for when we come, endless new paper plates cups flatware. When we come they get us cakes and pies from acceptable bakeries. But when we go to functions with 50 other people who too are not religious or even Jewish, our hosts are expected to make the entire event kosher? For sure not. They are in my opinion going above and beyond by doing what I just stayed, especially because it is not something they believe is necessary, but out of respect they do what needs to be done to ensure our attendance. All you need to do is supervise your child, and explain to a 7 year old, there are a lot of things here we can eat and a lot we cant, so come to mommy and she will make you a plate and show you the nosh you can eat!

The family that matters should be the one we want our child to marry into later on. When shidduch season begins, being in touch with non-frum relatives counts badly against the prospective chosson or kallah, for exactly the reason that was proven here. In a nutshell, if they’re not frum, they’re not family.

Loyal Jew. I understand the point you are trying to make, but I can’t get on board with thinking like that. I personally wouldn’t want a shidduch for my child that is going to high horse themselves so much that they can’t accept someone who has family members that are not up to they standards of religious. My mother wears pants, and does not cover her hair. She keeps shabbos, kosher, literally has the best midos of anyone I know. She is the first person to jump to help someone, to pick someone up from the airport, to change a strangers flat tire( yea my mom is superwoman). I am very proud to have her as my mom, never once have I been ashamed of the fact that she and my dad are very modern. One shidduch that was redt to me,many other thigs were wrong about the match but the boys mother actually said to me infront of his sisters, ” we’ll if this goes anywhere it is going to be humiliating at the wedding if your mothers hair is not covered”. BH it didn’t end up going far, but who says that?!!! My modern mother would never have the chutzpah.

When my kids were little, we had a very simple rule: You don’t eat anything unless Eeees or I (or our parents or frum siblings) give it to you.

It helps that my non-frum family has always been very respectful of our beliefs and take steps not undermine them.

Of course, my kids are older now and know for themselves how to determine what they can eat and what they cannot.

The Wolf

Meaning…?

I’m wondering if everyone would keep to their positions. For example, you would probably say the same thing as you said regarding food, to visit but maintain vigilance that your kids are not exposed to material which doesn’t meet your standards.

Would those who said that unless there’s only kosher food available don’t visit, also say unless there’s only kosher entertainment available not to visit? More specifically, if there was an unfiltered internet connection or TV, would they insist that they be disabled, and otherwise not visit?

Whenever I see some frum kids go to relatives who have a TV in the house, The TV is the first thing that goes on. They go to the TV and stay there until they leave to go home

Those parents need to be more responsible.

In a nutshell, if they’re not frum, they’re not family.

Anyone I know who have non frum family were told by their roshei yeshiva and rebbeim to keep in touch, to whatever extent they are able to keep their children away from negative influences. In some cases, based on the sensitivity of the family, they are able to visit, and in some are able only to host. But to dismiss outright as a rule is unacceptable.

oomis +1

Oomis said my opinion better than even I can

Loyal Jew: “The family that matters should be the one we want our child to marry into later on. When shidduch season begins, bla bla bla “

No. And you don’t believe that either.

takahmamash -“Why? It’s up to the parents to supervise the kid and watch what the kid eats. It’s certainly not the fault of a 7 year old! The situation in the OP could have been prevented it the parents had been paying attention. We’ve gone to many events that included food with family members who are not frum, and we’ve never had this problem.”

I was responding to this case -Obviously Not in General. This case -the parents could Not supervise their kid(s). I didn’t like the fact that some posters presumably felt that the kid should be punished for her behavior.

“You make it sound like they MUST make a choice between one or the other. They don’t.”

Like I just said -in this case this is their only choice.

If supervision was possible -this topic would never have started!

🙂 to those who responded so positively.

“but don’t let the kids out of your sight.”

That has always been my practice, and very sound advice whether in reference to kosher food or kosher internet use.

BTW, people should routinely delete their browsing history. And because the Yetzer Hara is so strong, parents must be responsible and give their kids the tools from a very early age, to help them avoid such pitfalls.

oomis – I agree with the bulk of what you wrote, but I just have to echo the others in saying that you really cannot learn anything from your computer history. It’s really easy to manipulate that, and you don’t have to be any kind of expert to do so.

Loyal Jew: Thank God I’m not related to you.