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Is it just me, or does anyone think that there is a major issue going on in our community? There seems to be a new trend amongst girls and boys to get engaged in 2-3 weeks (5-6 dates). How can the two possibly know eachother if they only met so few times?Don’t they want to feel comfortable with eachother before they get engaged? – I mean you are going to live with the person for the rest of your life WHAT IS THE RUSH?!??!???!
Chemistry?
Not saying right/wrong,good/bad–just may be a factor.
I heard from a shadchan recently that the trend is dying down – due to the high number of broken engagements people are going our more often than before.
It is not a new trend, it has happened this way for many decades. Some couples and families don’t see any reason for couples to date or shlep for a long time. They feel a few dates and their good to go. Some Rabbonim hold that this is fine, some hold that a couple need more time to be sure. Different people have different shitas.
i totally agree with you. when my sister started going out my mother told her that she couldnt get engaged before 6 weeks. my sister thought that was crazy, she thought she would be ready after 3 weeks. at a certain point she realized that she really did need a while to decide.
i just hope the divorce rate doesnt go up because of these hasty decisions
You WILL NOT know the boy/girl better if you date 12 times versus 5 times.
Do lots of research & info asking, then see it for yourself.
smartcookie
“You WILL NOT know the boy/girl better if you date 12 times versus 5 times.”
That’s a joke, right?
No it’s not.
If you date for 2 yrs, you find out more & really get to know each others. But spend 12 dates with someone?
Glad you think you know him!
smartcookie BETTER BE JOKING…otherwise I can’t even begin to understand.
There is No Rules! You find chassidim meet only 1-2 times, and you could have people dating for Months! Whatever goes, goes!
“You WILL NOT know the boy/girl better if you date 12 times versus 5 times.”
I could not disagree more with that statement.
The more time you spend with someone, the more likely it is that the “best behavior” they have been on for those first few dates, will level off to a more relaxed aspect of their personality, and they will let their guard down and act more as they typically do.
That may or may NOT be a good thing, but it could certainly bring to light things that were being kept hidden more easily in the beginning. Dating should not be about a number, but rather about the quality of a developing relationship. It is not so easy to fully develop a relationship in five dates, though it is a good start.
Obviously you get to know someone better if you spend 2 years with them vs 12 dates. But do you honestly think that you find out the same much on a 12th date vs a 5th?
It depends where the boy and girl are coming from, meaning how much of American society they were exposed to, and how much they want to feel towards each other before getting engaged. If both sides look into each other very well, and both sides really know who they are and what they want, the boy and girl can know that they’re ready to get engaged after only a few dates. if they actually want to feel something emotionally towards the other person, they have to date longer (but not everyone was brought up in a society where that is necessary). (“chemistry” can be felt on the first date; that they like the person; are not un-attracted to the person; and that they would like to spend time with the person)
smartcookie that is completely wrong. obviously you will get to know the person better because you are spending more time with them. i know people that went to their wedding not being so comfortable with their decision to get maried but they just assumed it will end up working out.
HOW CAN YOU SAY IT WILL WORK OUT ABOUT A LIFETIME DECISION??
its worth dating a few more times to really make sure that its for you. whats the rush???
The rush? everyone wants to get engaged quickly. Nobody wants to be the nebach case older girl who places like Nasi have to offer financial incentives to get them dates.
my husband and I knew in the middle of the FIRST date that we wanted to marry each other. we shmoozed on the phone A LOT before we met and then fianlly went out. after 4 dates we got engaged. b”H we are very happy. of course u learn new things about each other every day but that only happens after living with someone. you wont know what they are really like till u r married to them because again until u live with them u never really know!
ONE MORE THING TO ADD-
if it feels right and the couple have chemistry and dare i say it love each other then there is no reason to wait
There seems to be a new trend amongst girls and boys to get engaged in 2-3 weeks (5-6 dates).
I also think people do it because it is trendy. Like wearing sleeveless shirt over a shell.
smart cookie,
Take a good look at the ways of the goyim – they go out/date for months upon months leading into years after which they decide to move in with each other, thinking that they have been going out for so long and they are perfect for each other. What happens after a few short months sometimes weeks? They break up!
My point, dating for 5 weeks or 5 months or 5 years does not mean you know the person. As Yogibooboo so correctly pointed out,”you wont know what they are really like till u r married to them because again until u live with them u never really know! “
popa
I think we should compile all your funny lines into one thread.
I think the reason is that these girls are just soooo eager to get ENGAGED that they are not really thinking about it … I know a few girls who have told me that they wish they would never have said “yes” but now they are stuck!! (unless of course she decides to call it off)
It is often embarrassing when I go to vorts/lechaims and the kallah feels so uncomfortable!! I think this is due to the fact that they only met 5-6 times. What is the point in this?
popa- The reason girls wear short-sleeve shirts over a shell, is because nowadays, it’s very hard to find long sleeve shirts anywhere, and especially in the malls….. 🙂
Everyone obviously has different Hashkafos which impact how many times or how long they want to go out. Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with. I do believe, though, that (obviously after checking a person out) you will see the person’s Midos and Hashkafos…after a few times. You will not know the person any better until you get married! My husband and I went out 7 times in under 2 weeks and we got engaged B”H. We were completely ready – even after the first few times. Going out for longer does not give you any more insight to the person – if anything, it causes problems!
“Going out for longer does not give you any more insight to the person – if anything, it causes problems!”
Monsey Review I could not disagree more with this statement. I mean how can you possibly believe that you do not know someone better when you know them for a longer periond of time??! I’m not sayinthat dating should go on for years bot seeing someone SIX TIMES and you feel ready to MARRY THEM FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?!?!!?!!! Of course it could happen and people do get married and live happily ever after even if they went out for a short time- but going out longer does not cause problems!!! Do you know how many times I have gone out and said no after a 5th date!! things come up later on and you do not want to find these things out once its too late!! (at least I wouldn’t)
I think it depends on a persons background and how long they’ve in the dating scene for.
Someone fresh into the dating scene takes each date seriously, with excitement and is very astute during the dates. They usually don’t need as long. If they are serious and want to date longer, it would be terrible to discourage it.
When people have been dating for years, they need more dates to develop a comfortable connection. I’d rather not go through the reasons. They usually need many dates.
A cute one from a Rabbi Krohn tape. Rabbi Bick encouraged people to have at least 6-8 dates prior to getting engaged.
The Satmer Rebbe disagreed. He punned “katzti b’chayai mipnai bnos ‘chais'” (its what Rivkah told Yitzchok when sugesting what type of wife Yaakov should marry.)
Rav Bick responded, the Satmer Rebbe can say so since he is mesader Kidushin. Rav bick is mesader Gitten…
I don’t know why you think this is a new trend – none of my siblings went out too many more times than 6 and they are all happily married. I am married almost nine years and all my friends went out around six times and got engaged within three weeks.
But what Rabbi Krohn dosen’t say is the Satmar Rebbe’s answer: “Maybe thats the reason I’m a m’sader kidishin because my students DON’T go out eight times”.
deiyezooger: No. The satmer Rebbe didn’t serve as a dayen for his community. He left that To Rabbi Roth, Rabbi Berkowitz and others.
Rabbi Bick was the Rov of a small shul. He was well known since he was a big Talmud Chochom and a person who was able to deal sensibly with people getting divorced. They had different professions. Zeh hu
Maybe, but that was his answer.
heres what i dont understand. you take two people who never spoke to the opposite gender before you have them go out, and then they get enagaged. they were each their firsts. how do they know thats what they want? maybe there was someone better..etc. my husband and i spoke on the phone for a week before we went out had 4 dates btu also spoke a lot in between. thats how we built up our relationship. then u have these boys and girls who do everything thru a shadchan and dont really shmooze with each other unless they are together for 3 hours on a date. again how is that any different. if they would allow the girls and boys to shmooze and get to know each other even on the phone that would be good. Also…what’s the rush you ask? here is a one word answer:PRESSURE!!! pressure from rav, parents, friends and more.
yogibooboo: “maybe there was someone better”
Although we can’t make a wedding on Chol HaMoed we may be mekadesh a woman then, because someone may precede you through rachamim.
Not just on Chol Hamoed even on Tishu B’av.
TBT- thats not what im saying. what im saying is its as if ur settling right away with guy number one. when someone never spoke to a guy how does she know what she is doing? so therefore she settles with the first guy.
Once a person is ready for dating, then if it works with guy/girl #1, they have been really blessed. Using dating guy #1 to be prepared to marry guy # 12 is not only mean, it is foolish.
IMO, speaking on the phone IS like a date. So if you speak frequently on the phone, and you go out several times, with phone calls in between dates, you ARE getting to know the other person. Some people actually open up MORE on the phone, because they feel less self-conscious while they are getting to know someone.
The rush? everyone wants to get engaged quickly. Nobody wants to be the nebach case older girl who places like Nasi have to offer financial incentives to get them dates.
i dont think waiting another 5 dates will make her a nebach case. and is it better to not be a nebach case and be engaged and married while still young if there is a good chance youll be divorced within a few years. i think being married and divorced in your 20’s is more nebach than getting married at 23
alright! are you all ready to hear the real reason why people only go out few dates and not a very long time??.. its b/c if you go out with a person a very long time.. then you will automatically find something wrong with him/her and break it off b/c you want the “perfect” one.. but WAKE UP PPL! there is no such thing as “perfect”. thats why if you get married after knowing that you could get along with the person, then once you get married and find out their flaws then you will learn to deal with it.. just like you deal with your friends issues.. its amazing that ppl think that their friends are able to have flaws but not they’re husband/wife.. just remember one thing in life.. NOBODY IS PERFECT.. NOT EVEN YOU! 🙂
Applause!!
Any statistics on the # of dates divorce rate?
its b/c if you go out with a person a very long time.. then you will automatically find something wrong with him/her and break it off b/c you want the “perfect” one
As someone who dated for a long time, I can tell you that this is NOT universally true.
The Wolf
yogibooboo
my husband and I knew in the middle of the FIRST date that we wanted to marry each other. we shmoozed on the phone A LOT before we met and then fianlly went out. after 4 dates we got engaged. b”H we are very happy. of course u learn new things about each other every day but that only happens after living with someone. you wont know what they are really like till u r married to them because again until u live with them u never really know!
yogi, are you me???? i never knew we had so much in common 🙂 we spoke once before we went out, bu because we were in different states, so only went out on the weekends. my husband came to me over two weekends, and then i went to him the third. we got engaged saturday night, on the way home from our date, although our date had been spent trying to figure out a wedding date. also, my mother was sitting shiva then, so when i was at my sister house until i went back home, i couldnt even tell anyone!! (although we had a little unofficial l’chaim at my in laws house with all the siblings)
Everyone has their own story to tell…… so heres mine, after marrying off some children. YOU NEVER KNOW THE PERSON TILL YOU LIVE WITH THEM!!! NO MATTER HOW MANY DATES YOU HAD! ALL THE SEARCHING AND INFO WILL NEVER TELL YOU ABOUT ALL THE GHOSTS IN THE CLOSET!
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