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There are stories of people fooled by fakes. But what is the point of real jewelry if you can be fooled by fakes? The entire purpose of jewelry is to look pretty. If a fake looks good enough to fool you, it does the job just as well. (It is not fake jewelry, it’s just cheaper jewelry mistaken for more expensive.)
Real stones, i.e., diamonds, rubies, etc., have certain powers in ruchnious. You simply feel better with the real thing. Also gold. And don’t forget, diamonds are a girl’s best friend. Stop this business of giving a kallah a zakor!
What is a zakor?
A zakor is these glass stones they put in rings to look like diamonds. In English it’s a (zorkanda or something like that.)
Perhaps the word “powers” is wrong, but the Cohen Gadol wore certain stones for those reasons. And a pearl can cause a baby to be born sooner and many women (after they are safely in bed in the hospital) will swallow down a tiny seed pearl ( at a certain point in the labor and not sooner) and the baby will usually be born within half and hour.
Furthermore, women wear a ruby against their skin to prevent miscarriages, if I’m not mistaken, and these thing have their source in Gemorrah and are NOT pagan.Check out the stones of the Cohen Gadol and see that each has a deep meaning.
(It’s “zircon” [which, unlike cubic zirconia, is found in nature].)
[A] pearl can cause a baby to be born sooner… women wear a ruby
against their skin to prevent miscarriages, if I’m not mistaken, and these
things have their source in Gemorrah and are NOT pagan.I’d like a source for that pearl business – Google isn’t showing me anything
like that (not that that’s conclusive evidence). The even tekumah is
in the Gemara. It seems to be identified by different sources as ruby, carnelian,
and aetite (also known as eaglestone).
I don’t think the concept of stones having powers is a pagan one.You end up with stuff like this, though:
The pregnancy amulet is a unique kit with a ruby stone, carnelian, ‘even tekuma’ and a magnet that draws and strengthens the pregnancy. It hangs on a silver chain because silver is kabalistically associated with mercy, in contrast to gold which signifies judgment.I suppose pagans think animal sacrifices are a pagan thing, too.
Makes people feel important.
Why else would anybody drop a couple of grand on a rock?
Thanks to globalization and technological inventions, such as plastics, today we have access to beautiful inexpensive fake jewelry.
Real Jewelry…diamonds, high karat gold, precious stones (Emeralds, Sapphires and Rubies) are high value, low weight, easily transportable, hidden wealth that may be concealed, used to buy one’s way to freedom, greasing the palm of a border or prison guard or visa granting official.
My family may have arrived in the USA back in the late 1860s and early 1870s, but until my parents bought their first house in 1951 always rented and kept gold and jewels on hand should an instant flight be necessary as was too often the case in Europe. My generation all own real estate, but all keep ready gold, gems and cash in easy reach should the need arise.
The OP is correct. “Fake” jewelry is just as good as “real” jewelry if you could hardly tell the difference.
Don’t waste yiddishe gelt on “real” jewelry.
Furthermore, diamond rings for engagements is not a Jewish minhag; it comes directly from the diamond industry and is of relatively very recent vintage.
Don’t give diamond engagement rings.
@Joseph
The diamond engagement ring has been en vogue since the diamond strikes in South Africa circa 1866 which made diamonds plentiful and more affordable to the emerging middle class in western society.Your suggestion to not buy diamond engagement rings could hurt the economic livelihood of many frum yidden in the diamond trade…from importers to cutters,setters and retailers.
PLEASE dear friends. Just because someone made a mistake and thought it was pagan doesn’t mean that he’s pagan. Let’s be careful how we speak and we may see Moshiach any day this week.
Your suggestion to not buy diamond engagement rings could hurt the economic livelihood of many frum yidden in the diamond trade…from importers to cutters,setters and retailers.
Yes, and suggesting that people curb their chasunah expenses hurts the livelihood of caterers, florists, musicians, and photographers, and suggesting people eat healthy and exercise hurts doctors and undertakers.
DY………..
There is a Huge difference between suggesting people curb wedding expenses. which merely reduces the amount spent, than stating not to buy a product that eliminates all money spent.OOT. the chances are much greater that the florist, photographer and union musicians are not frum yidden or even Jews at all.
I married off one daughter last year and another will be wed I”H this August at our home. The caterer is a frum yid coming from NY. The florist, photographer, table and chair rental company are all local businesses, not frum. They do business with me and Mrs. CTL and we in turn do business with them. There is no local frum alternative and no reason to import these items or people. The chosan and his parents are providing the band. I have no information yet as to the name of the band, only know that it will be 6 men.
I know that the engagement and wedding jewelry are coming from frum craftsmen, but this is a purchase I am not involved in.First, mazel tov.
Please be aware that your financial situation and locale are likely very different than the vast majority of the CR readership.
Curbing wedding expenses in the in town yeshiva community often does eliminate jobs – a one man band means no drummer, bass, guitar, or horn players.
A cheaper photographer means fewer assistants.
Plastic gemach flowers means no florist.
Simpler cuisine means less profit for the caterer, and fewer workers.
You also didn’t answer my point that good health tips cuts income from undertaker’s.
Mainly, though, you missed the point I’m making, which is that you don’t advise people to spend money they likely don’t have because someone else will lose out. Unfortunately, because of societal pressure, people spend more money than they can afford on simchas.
B”H, a lot of progress has been made on the cost of the actual affair, with “takana packages” and the like a way for people to save. Jewelry, however, has not had the same success. Although in some communities, attempts have been made to keep costs down, overall it hasn’t worked.
Halevai that Joseph’s suggestion would become reality.
RY23
The RAMBAN by the choshen in shemos has a long piece that goes through the stones in the choshen and ascribes “powers” to them
For example, the ruby is reuvens stone and connects to the story of reuven bringing his mother mandrakes, which apparently have fertility powers (and that is why he was bringing them to Laya) so the ruby stone apparently has fertility powers.
Hence the extremely popular minhag for pregnant women to wear rubies.
Our religion also ascribes “powers” to zodiac signs. You can argue as to whether it still applies. But the concept is well documentedAs for the OP
I’m reasonably sure this will split among male/female lines
Few women want or treasure a “fake” diamond (unless they are worried about conflict diamonds, hence Hollywood actresses pushing stones like Moissanite which are supposedly even more pretty than real diamonds)
When I tried to convince my (very low maintenance) wife to get Moissanite instead of real, it didn’t fly.
So the answer to the question is
“because it makes your wife happy!”RY23
Listen
I’m not arguing the point
As a guy, I find these things baffling. But don’t you find most things about women baffling? And I’m sure they feel the same way.mentch1, the menfolk are supposed to bring the intellectual side of things, which should take precedence over the emotional side of things.
RebYidd23,
Humans in general are weird.
Indeed. Yet Hashem still loves us.
RebYidd23,
There are stories of people fooled by fakes. But what is the point of real jewelry if you can be fooled by fakes? The entire purpose of jewelry is to look pretty.
I think the primary purpose of giving jewelry is to bring joy to the recipient. Cultural norms are not always “rational”, and “real” gold and “real” diamonds are usually treasured more than “fake” varieties, even if they visually appear the same. Additionally, part of the intended statement when giving expensive jewelry is that the recipient is valuable to the giver, and therefore the giver is willing to invest his resources for the recipient’s pleasure. That said, I agree 100% with Joseph and DaasYochid that one should not spend beyond his means on jewelry.
Joseph
Next time your wife wants something I would like to suggest the following
“Honey, I know it’s our 25th Anniversary, but intellectually there is nothing different about today vs yesterday. So I bought you a vacuum”
Let me know how it goes
I guarantee results.Jewelry can be used as part of the kesubah gelt.
DY…………
I have repeatedly said on this forum that people should only buy what they can afford.If you can’t afford a diamond, don’t buy one.
This is different than an opinion expressed that no one should buy a diamond engagement ring.BTW…your ‘good health tips cuts income from undertakers’ FAILS the ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ logic test. After this, therefore because of this.
Being healthy delays death, it doesn’t eliminate it. If there are 100 people they ALL die eventually and become business for the undertaker. A longer, healthier life does not equal immortality.
to Joseph
There are times when you need emotions and not intellect, like when giving a diamond engagement ring. But for sure don’t spend too much. Also, she has to look at the ring every once in a while to make sure that the little “teeth” holding it in place have not become thin and weak and make sure that the diamond is not loose. If she takes it off for netilas yadayim (not everyone does) be careful! Don’t leave it on the side of the sink and not in your mouth!agutyar,
and not in your mouth!
Certainly! Because it’s hard to make a bracha with a ring in your mouth 🙂
RebYidd23,
A ring is another piece of stress, a thing you have to be careful with.
I don’t think it has to be stressful. Making some precautions habitual can greatly reduce the potential for loss. And valuable jewelry doesn’t have a monopoly on things with sentimental value that can be lost. About the saddest I have ever seen my wife over losing a thing was when a pipe-cleaner flower that my daughter made for her got destroyed.
To Avram, in MD
That was SO funny! You’re right about the bracha, but I was thinking of her swallowing it. And by the way, there are daos that if you wear the ring even when you knead dough, then you can keep it on when you wash.to C4ndom3x: you’re right, it’s zircon, not zakor. Thank you for the correction.
It’s true, wedding expenses should be kept down so the parents don’t go broke, and so there will be money left for the next in line, and so you can help them more with rent or buying, and also we shouldn’t make other people feel that they have to keep up or be embarrassed. But I would cut back on something else, and not the diamond ring, unless in the States it’s out of control already. One of my daughters just brought her daughter-in-law a beautiful diamond ring for $700 and the girl is glowing from happiness. Maybe it’s different here in Israel.
Thank G-d we have married off all our children and are seeing our grandchildren getting married and are great-grandchildren being born. And I wish all of you naches and bracha and hatzlacha.rabah.
P.S.
to Avram in MDYour wife sounds like a very special person and a devoted and sensitive mother.
One of my daughters just brought her daughter-in-law a beautiful diamond ring for $700 and the girl is glowing from happiness. Maybe it’s different here in Israel.
In the U.S., unfortunately, that would be a rare story. Or the daughter in law would be faking it.
The subject of engagement rings has been discussed in other threads, where I’ve mentioned that my wife and I decided against an engagement ring because when we got engaged, in the days of apartheid in South Africa, all diamonds were tainted. Years later, she asked for a CZ solitaire, and picked one out on eBay.
The whole idea of the need for a diamond engagement ring was created by the diamond cartel. Edward Jay Epstein wrote an article in The Atlantic magazine in 1982 entitled “Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond?” in which he reveals the history of a remarkably successful marketing campaign.
Diamonds aren’t forever — the one in my mother’s engagement ring became worthless when it developed internal fractures as the result of a blow.
There is an amazing true story a rabbi shared in a shiur!!!
Husband and wife got married.
Shortly after wedding they took a walk on the beach.
They come back.
The wife couldn’t find her ring! It wasn’t on her finger.
Where was the ring?
Shhh don’t tell family, we’ll find it.
Went back to the beach. Looked everywhere.
Told family. Both sides went searching.
No avail! No ring! Husband’s family so angry!
After that, every time husband and wife were with husband’s family, they put her down. “Oh I want to give you ….. but I know you’ll lose it, so I’m giving it to your husband so he makes sure that it doesn’t disappear” snark snark
Wife felt so bad. Year after year. So ashamed.
Many years many many years later, husband and wife go somewhere and husband wears same tux jacket from wedding night
Husband finds wedding ring! Wife must have asked him to keep it safe before they walked on the beach! Was there safe all along! Wow!!!
Wife vindicated!
From that point wife makes fun of husband. Finds ways to put him down about being so forgetful. All this time she was the responsible one! Husband takes it without a word.
Years later. Years years many years later! Husband and wife were in a financial bind. Wife wanted to sell the ring. Make the sacrifice for them.
She takes the ring to a jeweler for an appraisal.
She tells the jeweler it’s approximate value.
Jeweler says no. No way. Sorry lady.
Wife goes home and searches all around for the ring’s papers. She finds a receipt. The purchase of the ring was made right before she and husband went to that event where he wore the tux jacket!
Confronts husband. Husband confesses. He felt so horrible at how ashamed she felt and how his family treated her that he saved up year after year to finally but her a new diamond ring.
This ring was worth more than the first one!
Wife said, “All these years I was so mean to you, and you said nothing when all along you knew the truth and kept it secret?!”
Yes.He felt so horrible at how ashamed she felt and how his family treated her that he saved up year after year to finally but her a new diamond ring.
He should have told her that she was more important to him than all of the diamond rings in the world. And then he should have told his family to back off, and that any scorn directed towards his wife was no different than scorn directed towards him.
That story can be found in one of Chaim Walder’s People Speak books.
When in-laws become out-laws our lives can collapse. As a daughter-in-law and also a mother-in-law I can tell you that the best thing is to remain close and loving to your daughters/sons- in- law. Believe me, you will only gain by being close. And lose by starting up and interfering. If it’s not life threatening, keep quiet. I have a sister-in-law who refused to name any of her daughters after her paternal grandmother because of the aggravation she caused her mother (the daughter-in-law). So what did that women gain?
Agutyar….
My late mother A”H, had the BEST advice for being a good mother in law:
KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND YOUR REFRIGERATOR OPEN.When she died 2 years ago she had lived to see all of her children reach at least 40 years of marriage. Her daughters and sons in law adored her, she never interfered or offered an unasked for opinion. She was always there when she was needed, but never intrusive in our lives.
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