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I only know about Rabbi Brazil’s reputation when he was here in the US and from his son-in-law. I do not know anything about his yeshiva in EY.
iacisrmma, I take your point. As I said, I don’t know the young man. I just said as I saw it, and if not helpful to the OP, it may be helpful to others.
Rif, I would love to help you. But, I don’t know the American Yeshivos in EY. I do know someone who was in AJ, though. It seems they do a good job, but I don’t know anything about it in the last 11 years. (I did see Rabbi Jablinowitz in Manchester last week though, pity I didn’t know that you may be interested in his Yeshivah). If you are open to the European option (Brexit not withstanding) have you considered Ba’er HaTorah in Gateshead? It is a ‘yeshivishe’ yeshiva, but very much geared towards getting yeshiva ketana age, (I’m sorry I’m not familiar with the grades in the US) like 15-16-17 year old boys, to have a cheishek for learning. I have seen very successful b’nei Torah come out of there. They have a special program, ve’haarev na, which encourages repeated chazora to ‘be koineh’ a mesechte in a geshmakke way. All the Rebbeim are very dedicated to the boys and they do trips and have melave malkas and different programs to make yeshiva life more enjoyable. However, I can’t imagine that they allow mobile phones.
Gr8Bochur, I hear what you’re saying. No one said it was simple. It would be a huge challenge, and not knowing you, perhaps I gave wrong advice. However, I still hold by what I said, and hopefully you or someone else will get chizuk from it at some stage.
I wish you only hatzlocho in your onward, upward journey.I wonder – was Dina considered yeshivish?
Snort.
Rif, Just to clarify what Gr8Bochur suggested.
Tiferes Tzion is in Telshe Stone, and the big draw there is Rabbi Blumenfeld known as “The Mash”. You may have seen an article in the Mishpacha about him. If you can hold of it, it was Wednesday July 20 2016.
Reb Lopian’s place is Lev Arye in Neveh Yaakov. Rabbi Aaron Lopian is the son of Gateshead Rosh Yeshiva, Rav Leib Lopian. I don’t know much about the yeshiva though.Again, please stop putting people in boxes
It’s difficult to have an objective discussion about these type of things without labels. I agree that labels are not definitive, are often misleading, and that it doesn’t mean anything for someone to associate himself with a specific sector (see the “No-True-Scotsman” thread). But to compare and contrast Yeshivos would be impossible without some form of labelling.
To be fair, what I was trying to say about Yeshivish (and it was misunderstood by Rebshidduch, and I see no toeles in arguing it out) was exactly that – judging people’s actions when you can’t know the motives and factors involved in decisions is wrong, and that is really where labels mix us up. The fact that you learn in Kollel doesn’t make you a Ben Torah. It is about attitude, mindset, priorities. If you don’t want to give it a name, אשריך וטוב לך.
It’s our choices that truly define us, far more than our abilities.
Yekke2 –shkoyach! I was going to write something similar but hadn’t yet gotten around to it.
The way I would put it is like this: While there are many negative aspects to boxes and they should be used sparingly and carefully, they do have their purpose and they can’t be altogether ignored.
When children are learning to understand the world around them, they often appear extremely narrow-minded (for example, I find it amusing how often kids assume that I am a goy or OTD because my hair is uncovered : )).
However, this actually is the way that cognitive development works. A child can only internalize information through the use of schemas (aka boxes). For example: All adult females are mommies. It is the only way that they can process information.The way I always put it is that one has to know what the boxes contain before one can learn how to think outside of the box.
Likewise, when a person is at a stage of life in which he is trying to figure out who he is and what his goals are and what type of marriage-partner he is looking for, he needs to use boxes to help him sort things out. We live in a complex society and often we need to use boxes in order to process the different hashkafas/values/religious levels around us.
Of course, the ideal is to eventually come to a place in which while still using boxes to help navigate one’s way, one is also able to “think outside the box” as well.
@LU: Another pitfalls of “boxes” is not just that the more you label things, the more difficult it is to think outside the box (and depending on which box you are referring to, thinking outside of it might not necessarily be a good thing!). A bigger issue is that that boxes can be illusory and misleading. This is because:
(A) People are complex and multi faceted enough that they cannot be defined in one word. And כשם שאין פרצופיהם דומין זל”ז כך אין דיעותיהן דומין זל”ז.
(B) People often portray themselves differently to different people. Your perception of a person or group comes from an extremely limited observational capacity, and often limited only to what s/he chooses to show you.
While there are advantages in being able to use “boxes” definitively, they are very limited, and you generally lose more than you gain.
Geordie613
Thanks for your suggestions and for clarifying what Gr8bochur suggested.
Be’er Hatorah in Gateshead is for youngsters, my son is post high school (I mentioned it earlier). There is Nezer Hatorah for older bochurim. The problem is that Gateshead is a boring place, no outlets, nothing to do after seder whereas in Israel boys go to restaurants and can do fun things.
I watched the video of Tiferes Zion, the boys look very modern, t-shirts and big hairdos, this is not our style. We come from a heimish, slightly Chassidic background. My son is simply not interested in learning Gemoro all day long.
Lev Aryeh seems regular mainstream Yehsiva with 3 daily sedorim, too intense for my son.
Have you looked into Yeshivas Toras Chaim? Sounds about right.
Rif: Gateshead is literally the perfect place for virtually any bochur; it’s almost as if it was custom built for that purpose. The only serious difference I can think of is eating out, which admittedly is virtually impossible in Gateshead. But boring… no.
But then again, if you think Lev Aryeh is too intense for your son, Be’er HaTorah may be a stretch. It’s a great place, as is Nezer HaTorah, but it doesn’t sound like what you’re looking for.
I have to fully read this thread to get a better picture, but have you considered Imrei Binah or perhaps Applebees? They seem less intense than Lev Aryeh whilst still providing a good level of care and attention. Especially Imrei B.
I see that AJ’s, Senters and Brasil’s have been mentioned.
Knowing bochurim who have attended Senters, I have a very high opinion of it. For those I know that have gone there it has done an excellent job. I don’t know as much about the other two, but I do know one of the yungerleit/rebbeim at AJs reasonably well, and the impression I get from him and others is positive. And Brasil’s also has a very good reputation, but I know little by way of details.
Imrei B might be for slightly older bochurim, and is maybe a little too far in the other direction from, for example, Lev Aryeh, but if it is actually the kind of place you’re considering, it is fantastic at what it does.
NeutiquamErro: I don’t know if you are right about Gateshead being the perfect place for virtually any bochur. It certainly is an incredible place for those motivated and willing to immerse themselves fully in the ים של תורה. There are a fantastic amount of Bnei Torah and choshuve Yungerleit, dozens of mosdos spread over four streets, and is a place where a Yeshiva Bochur can sit and learn without any distractions.
To be perfectly honest, for those interested in anything other than pure, undiluted, Torah, there isn’t much in Gateshead. You can’t even buy supper on the nights that there are weddings in town; the only deli takeaway uses the kitchen of the Bewick Centre, which doubles as the Chasuna Hall, Computer Suite and Football/Basketball pitch.
Not everyone can/is willing to squash themselves into the system; there are those who need outlets, who need the very distractions that Gateshead exists to circumvent. They need the freedom you can’t find in a neighborhood so small, and the space which Gateshead certainly doesn’t provide. (And the relatively few outlets in Gateshead/Newcastle are less than Kosher.)
I have to agree wholeheartedly with Yekke2’s description of Gateshead.
Yekke2: Firstly, I think you massively underrate what Gateshead has to offer. I think it appears boring from the outside, but after experiencing it it becomes apparent that there is a lot more than meets the eye.
Second, the outlets that you neglected to mention are if anything more kosher than many in Israel. It would take a while for me to explain myself more clearly, which I’m not gonna bother with now when half asleep, but I am pretty firm in my conviction that Gateshead, as a place, has plenty to offer and occupy most bochurim, yes, even ‘virtually all’. Eating out is the only department I can think of in which it is severely lacking.
NeutiquamErro: You’re going to have to be more specific to persuade me, I’m afraid. And I didn’t say Gateshead is boring, I was focusing more on the fact that it could be claustrophobic and stifling for those who need more space for expression. There aren’t many kosher outlets (unless I missed a lot during my 4 years there).
yekke2, I agree with you that Gateshead could be claustrophobic and stifling for those who need more space for expression.
NeutiquamErro, I coild not find anything on Imrei Binah. I have no idea what you mean with Applebees, is this some kind of joke I am missing?
I am dating a guy now who is very religous (much more than me) and he went to a good yeshiva.
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