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Today’s NY Times ran an article about the “team 6” group that led the Osama raid. One quote from Mr. D. Shipley (who runs a private Seal-like training school)stood out:
That’s us too. In yiddishkeit, we are either headed for Schar olam Haboh or….(well, lets not focus on the other destination)
Go team Yiddishkeit!
It is a great message in LIFE but I dont think it is a great message for Yiddishkeit.
All too often there is pressure on kids to be the ‘next Rosh Yeshiva’ its black and white and learning and there are no alternative routes in life. In my short 24 years on this earth (with limited intelligence) my opinion is that its the polarization of ‘Frumkeit’ that turns kids off.
If you say be all that you can be and that equals hero than 100% I agree with the message. But to say ‘this could be heaven or it could be hell’ (hey isnt that an Eagles song?) is the only choices… thats a little intense for kids to digest.
I’m with you, Oomis. It’s not black & white.
There are different levels in Heaven.
It’s not as if you either make it or you don’t.
It depends upon if one wants orchestra seats, front row seats, or mezzanine, so to speak.
Thanks, bpt, for the vort.
Also, what we learn from them is to always bring along an extra hellicopter.
I must agree with Sacrilege. You may want to compare the top 1% of us with the Navy SEALs, but don’t forget the other 99% of the Navy are others who do equally important but less demanding and less dangerous work. (Actually they’re way less than 1%.)
And I don’t want to insinuate others in the Navy by definition have less demanding or less dangerous work. Try being a corpsman with Marines in the field, try being underwater for weeks in a submarine, being away for 6 months on deployment, boarding vessels that may have numerous armed terrorists on them in the middle of the night with your small boarding party of 10, or landing a big heavy cargo plane on a carrier at night on a rough sea. Or try being a rescue swimmer who jumps from a helo into the Atlantic Ocean in a hurricane to rescue people from the water.
I think I’m bored.
“I think I’m bored.”
So why don’t you learn from the navy seals (as the title suggests)& get yourself into a helicopter & land on some roof somewhere
What we need to learn from the navy seals is that not everyone is capable and able to be a seal. There should be a weeding out process in yeshivas and only a select “few” should be living on the public dole, the rest need to find other gainfull employment
I think we could learn how to balance a ball on our nose for a few fish.
r37: EVERY Jew, regardless of intellect, has a RIGHT to stay in the Yeshiva and learn full-time. If YOU don’t want to support him, don’t. Other have and will be more than happy to pick up your slack.
Pac-Man,
I never said they don’t have a right to stay (although I didn’t know we live under a constitution that affords rights). Whomever want to sit in beis medresh all day for their whole life can do whatever they want. But that does not mean they should be supported by the public. The public needs to set standards and rules and at some point those that have shown the ability, apptitude and whatever other qualifications are set should be the ones supported so they can live appropriatley, the rest can make the decission to live off whatever funds they earn but they should not be living off the public. Nowhere is history has it been that everyone was accepted to a yeshiva and then only the best were the ones that continued on learning for extended years.
r37: We live under a Torah that affords them that right. “Aptitude” or being “the best” is not a prerequisite. See Rambam. Why are you opposed to others willingly providing such support that you are not? No one is being taxed by the IRS or forced to fork money over to Kollels. It is all voluntary contributions. And as I said, if you don’t wish to provide them any support, many other can, have, and will pick up your slack and continue such well-deserved support.
I wanna be a NAVY seal when i grow up!! LOL
Pacman,
I am going to assume you have not married off a child recently or ever, especially one that ended up in Lakewood. The amount of money flowing to Lakewood by parents and shvers is not all willingly. And IIRQ Rambam does not like the idea of full time learners living off the public dole.
r37: Who is the guy with the gun forcing them to pay? Rambam describes those who WANT to join Shevet Levi. The idea that only the “best” should learn in Kollel is a baseless falsehood and it is against the Halchah as expressed by the Rambam which states that anyone who so chooses may learn in Kollel. See also YD Laws of Talmud Torah 246:21 and Shach ad loc. Kollel is a special privilege and status that anyone can go for if they so choose, the Rambam says. If someone gives money to you because he wants to merit the zechus of supporting Torah, and expects you to learn Torah because that is what he is supporting you to do, then that is not tzedakah at all but rather a simple business deal, the same as if I pay you to play baseball. As an aside, the Halachah is that you are nowadays allowed to live off Tzedakah to learn (see the Ramah and Shach in Hilchos Talmud Torah).
agree with pac-man – he’s right (IF kid is not demanding money from wife’s parents or his own, or if he’s not demanding his wife to support him)
Pac-man I will let you continue to live in your fantasy land. Foecefullness can be done in a passive manner also. When a daughter comes home (brainwashed or not) from seminary that they have to only marry a guy that will sit and learn and there are other yet to be married children behind her, the forking over of money is not always so willingly. Every parent wants to see their child get married, and they will occasionally do things they do not believe in or can even afford in order to move along. Because if they don’t do those things the possibilities of shidduchim for the other children becomes a lot harder. Also, parents love for their children is to such a great extent that they will do thigs to thier own detrement just to take care of thier child. But don’t for a minute believe that just because they are doing it, they are doing it willingly. It is not a sentiment that will ever get passed the censorship of the yated or hamodia and end up there, but if you listen carfully to how people talk you will see that even the gvirim that give a lot sometimes feel their hands are tied and they give anyways to avoid confrontations etc.
rescue, how sad.
The torah doesn’t grant anyone any rights to anything.
You disagree with the above Rambam?
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