What Kind of a Kapora is This???

“The Torah is Hashem’s word…One must do as it says.” This is a given. But you are viewing ambiguity in the hypothetical, that one must follow the Rabbonim “if” ambiguity exists. Surely you will not claim to fully understand the entire Torah, even after years of study? Yes, this is why we have meforshim, to explain and analyze the text. But they almost always disagree with one another. How does one decide which opinion to follow? This is where individuals must choose which opinions resonate more within themselves. (There are some who will choose one Rav and follow his opinion on every matter. But how does one go about choosing which Rav to follow? Nothing is arbitrary; one’s own opinion is inevitably involved to some degree.)

“option” should have read “opinion”.

I, and surely others here, are familiar with jofa and their anti-Torah philosophies(as much as they miserably try to twist halacha out of it.)

From JOFA:

“The Road to Wearing a Tallit: Why an Orthodox Woman Wears a Tallit,” Marcus, Bat Sheva. JOFA Journal, V, 3, 2005, 12.

Synopsis: Bat Sheva Marcus describes the journey that brought her to wear a tallit in daily prayer.”

The Rema on Shulchan Orach states it is an act of arrogance for women to perform this mitzvah (Shulchan Orach, O.C. 17:2).

Another example is their position on women being able to learn Gemorah. We’ve had a long discussion on this issue in the Coffee Room where it was conclusively demonstrated that a woman cannot learn Gemorah, per Masechtes Sotah Daf 21b and Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah siman 246 sif 6 as well as poskim and other sources. you can read it at (last 8 or so comments on the page):

Still Fuming At Rabbi Belsky And Mishpacha

I’m not going to further debate their “sources” for these things, where they use (at best) psak din that Klal Yisroel has long paskened against. They are essentially irrelevant within Orthodoxy, and not worth any more time.

In Pesachim we read of a case where a Jew shares property with a non-Jew, and the gemara says he should minimize his bedikah, so that the non-Jew should not suspect him of doing keshafim (withcraft).

In our days, one must realize that for many reasons (which may have nothing to do with us, and more to do with Islamic misbehavior) religion has a very bad rep. I personally believe, although I am not a Rabbi, and you must consult one, that any practice which has the slightest possibility of making us look primitive, boorish and superstitious should be discontinued, especially when many poskim hold it is darchei emori in the first place.

We must realize that only 7% of Jews are frum these days, and we have lost 93%. We are not doing well. When the nonfrum see certain practices that offend them, they make total ridicule out of our Torah C”V. I know this first hand, having met these types. This was one of the reasons the Reform movement began, not necessarily because they didn’t want to keep mitzvos, but because they were totally embarrassed by the way the Jews were perceived by the outside world.

In my lowly opinion, we must make the utmost effort that everything we do looks appropriate, and we dress and act 100% neatly and refined, or we make a terrible chilul hashem. Perhaps we would be better off using money.

Joseph, did you actually read the article, or did you just look at the title and draw your own conclusions?

This is from morim.org, written by Rabbi Joshua Kullock:

“Now, if we wish to see in which way the Halacha is coded for a given item (such as, say, covering oneself with a tallit), we might open up the Shulchan Aruch and find the following:

‘Women and slaves are exempt, for it is a positive precept with a determined time period. Ramah: And, in any event, if they wished to cover themselves [with the tallit] and bless, they could do so, just as with the other positive precepts with a determined time period; however it is considered an arrogant attitude, and for this reason they should not don the tzitzit.’ (Orach Chaim 17:2)

While Yosef Karo presents us with a replica of what we read in the Mishnah, Moshe Isserles (Ramah) adds two interesting pieces of information: On the one hand, women can observe if they wish, but this would be considered an arrogant attitude, so they should refrain from doing so. In this paragraph we might underscore several linguistic details: Above all, the Ramah writes openly that women can observe all positive precepts with temporal specifications. However, in his opinion such observance would demonstrate haughtiness towards others and is therefore best not practiced. Now…does the arrogance of this attitude have something to do with the times in which there were marked differences in the observance, labor, and social status of men and women? Should we continue to adduce arrogance as a motivation, so that women not use the tallit? Who would be offended in the twenty-first century, should a woman don a tallit?…Without having to arrive at any final answer, we can already see how language, context and norm fuse together, in a multifarious, complicated web, which will have to be taken into consideration when drawing conclusions.”

So you see, it’s not as simple as you make it out to be. I have also thoroughly studied the sources for women learning Gemara and it is clear to me that there is no halachic issue there; however, I will reserve my comments for the existing thread. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

Pashuteh Yid, thanks for bringing the discussion back on topic. You make excellent points.

That thread is closed. But it most certainly IS a “halachic issue”, according to Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 246:6. Also see the 6th to last post on the aforementioned (closed) thread for additional sources.

There is a teshuvah in Igros Moshe that says that just as with mitzvos like shofar and lulav, women can optionally put on a tallis. However, it depends on her intentions. If to really acquire extra kedusha or zchus, then it is ok. But if it is just to show that she is the same as a man, then not ok.

At any rate, I have always wondered why women would feel inferior when they have the mitzva of raising the next generation of yidden. Why is that less important or meritorious than wearing black boxes or a woolen cloth?

…which also brings out another point. Reb Moshe was clearly opposed to feminism. (But this is such an obvious point, it hardly needs any mention.)

Joseph:

This is a forum, not a battleground.