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I’d like to say I have No controversial opinions. All my opinions are 100% Emes! 😉
Zdad -“Rav Yaakov Kammentzky according to his son wanted to see the moon landing see if the Rambam was false. So he watched the landing on TV and saw the moon landing.”
Are you trying to say R. Yaakov held the Rambam was wrong?
Longarekel: We don’t always Pasken by the Rambam. The Shulchan Aruch does not require Ituf. The Rama is clearly Mechalek between married and unmarried women covering their hair as the Minhag. See the Aruch Hashulchan too. My Mesorah isn’t false. My Mesorah is for my Havara and that Mesorah goes back to the time of the Ge’onim. Such a Mesorah would be Assur for me to go against as the Ge’onim were those who transferred Torah Sheba’al Peh to us. I agree that there are cases where one does not have to wear a Kippah. That being said, the Minhag is strong enough to require it outside a large Sha’as Had’chak.
Health,
Rav Yaakov’s son said that rav yaakov concluded based on that phenomenon that the given section of the rambam as based on the scientists of that time who apparently had a mistake.
He concluded that that part of the rambam was not torah.
However, something equaly troubling to some in today’s environment, the rambam wrote things which were science(and not torah) in his great book.
The speech he(Rav Noson) gave is available online(goggle “making of a ban” and “yu”)
I believe with all my heart that a Jewish man has an obligation to learn Torah (if he is capable of same, not all men are) every single day, for some portion thereof. I also believe that if he is getting married, his primary obligation according to the kesubah, is to provide for his wife and family. It is not HER obligation or her parents’ obligation to do so. If and when they do, it is a chessed on their parts. But it is no chessed to force her to work twice as hard as need be in today’s two-income necessity per family, in order for her to pick up the slack her husband is leaving by not doing his fiscal share.
Oomis: We are not working with the same set of facts. In the community I come from, the girls want their husband to learn just as much- if not more than- the husband wants to learn. They routinely will not even consider a shidduch with a guy who does not plan to learn at least 3-5 years after marriage.
I think when you look at the actual facts in our communities, you will agree there is no wrongdoing here.
If you want to criticize, I think you will need to go back a step and maybe criticize the culture which makes the girls want it.
Yserbius, the Shulchan Aruch holds that learning ‘Chachma’ can indeed make you an Apikores, which is why it should only be learned by someone who is well learned in Torah and old enough to know better.
Points #2 and #3 are exellent points.
In the community I come from, the girls want their husband to learn just as much- if not more than- the husband wants to learn. They routinely will not even consider a shidduch with a guy who does not plan to learn at least 3-5 years after marriage.
Hence the shidduch crisis.
That is what the girls get for going to Israel, removing their brain, washing and scrubbing vigorously, and reprogramming it to the Sem teachers specifications. 😉
HaLeiVi:
‘Chachma’ is not practical or objective science (which is a Machlokes if it is Muttar to learn on Shabbos, see hilchos Muktza, but is certainly Muttar B’Chol). Perhaps it means Greek Philosophy (AKA Chachmas Yevanis)?
Give and take. Learn Torah, work and leave handouts to those who are unable to work. Feel this attitude is stifled in frum community, too many expect in-laws or even State to support them ( here in England generous social security system) Feel to claim handouts when you are able bodied is against Jewish ethics. Shocked and dismayed how many frum Jews in sincerely devout communities have a blind spot when it comes to claiming benefits meant for those truly incapacitated.
able-bodied men should go out and look for jobs instead of knocking on doors for tzedakah.
And if you weren’t given the tools to earn a living, do your kids a favor and don’t doom them to the same fate.
The Kesuba doesn’t mention working. It says that he will supply her with what she needs.
i would say that my most controversial opinion is probably that the frum community, right wing more, left wing less, turns a blind eye to obvious problems like sexual abuse, mental illness, drug abuse (especially drug abuse) alcohol abuse, domestic violence, spousal infidelity, etc…because we have this idea that simply calling ourselves “frum” means that we are perfect. just because we call ourselves “frum.”
this applies more to chassidim, a bit less to yeshivish et al., and even less to Modern Orthodox.
Yserbius, what would anyone want to learn evolution for? Statistically, there is more than a 1,000,000 to 1 chance of even one change that evolution speaks about taking place, and evolution requires millions of such changes, so the chances of evolution being fact-based is astronomical. I learned evolution as if it were fact, which is far from the truth. You may want to have monkeys from parents, but I prefer to believe that we are descendants of higher beings and have a higher purpose in this world than that.
I haven’t posted here till now because I thought there would be no point in stating my opinions on things since I think most people here would disagree, anyway. But I think it’s good for me to talk them out.
The necessity to conform to a specific system’s superficial ideals in order to be accepted is unfair and ridiculous.
A mentor/Rabbi should not control everything in your life. He is a guide. You should be able to think for yourself when necessary. You know yourself better than anyone. Thinking for yourself should not be discouraged.
There is no one correct path to G-d. Everyone should find their own unique path that will enable them to reach their highest potential.
Parents shouldn’t force their children to take the path that worked for them. Their children may need a totally different path, and each child may need his or her own path.
Don’t force your opinion on others just because you think you are right. Don’t put down or be negative toward another person, group, or sect of Judaism, just because they may do something you don’t like, or you think they are doing something incorrectly.
Don’t treat women like second-class citizens. Don’t treat other types of Jews like second-class citizens. Don’t treat non-Jews like second-class citizens.
There is enough Torah for everyone to find an area that they would enjoy learning. Don’t feel obligated to learn something that you won’t enjoy just because everyone else learns it. It may damage your connection to Torah.
Most yeshivos don’t spend enough time (or any time) teaching students how to be responsible, caring adults. And no, most of them won’t learn these things from sitting in front of a gemarah.
The way the topic of tznius is forced down girls’ throats would make any of them want to completely disregard any of it. Teach it with love. True tznius is how you act, not just how you dress.
There is, and always will be, a struggle in Judaism between keeping our traditions and making necessary changes or adjustments to accommodate and guide the younger generations. This struggle is just part of Judaism, and not everyone will agree upon where to keep tradition and where to make changes. In fact, I’d say that the vast majority of arguments between different types of Jews are in exactly this. There is no one answer for everyone. What works for some will not work for others. Don’t ridicule people you disagree with.
The people who need mussar the most are the ones that refuse to listen to it, and the people who rarely need mussar are the ones that always take it.
It is extremely important for parents and teachers to instill a faith in G-d into their children and students.
Most people don’t know how to reprimand others properly, and should therefore not do it at all, because doing it incorrectly can cause the receivers to leave a Torah way of life.
If you can’t control your anger, then it is completely pointless to argue with anyone in the CR about anything. You won’t get anywhere, and will only cause hatred.
I have many more, but I think this post is long enough.
Welcome back, tahini!
soliek.
Sorry, its actually the modern orthodox who show a blind eye to sexual realities by ignoring what really happens when you allow boys and girls to mix and give them unfiltered access to the internet.
Underexposure by the more frum is not a denial of reality but an understanding that privately done aveiros when they become public create a huge chillul hashem and make people more likely to do aveiros if they think they are not the only ones.
All Ashkenazim (including Israelis) should at least learn and daven (if not speak) with havara Ashkenazis (when speaking Hebrew or Aramaic).
All Jews (including the Ashkenazic Yeshivish) should at least learn and daven (if not speak) with the emphasis on the correct syllables (when speaking any language especially Hebrew and Aramaic).
And I don’t think schools should be teaching talmidim to speak Hebrew with “oy” instead of “oh” because (to the best of my knowledge) that’s not correct according to any havarah.
Women should be stay-at-home moms.
The status quo for every Jew should be to move to Eretz Yisroel unless there is a compelling reason to stay in Chutz LaAretz, and not the other way around
rikki2: you completely missed the point. i said sexual abuse. if you assume that boys and girls hanging out = sexual abuse than there’s a problem somewhere.
you have a separate point which merits discussion, but the context in which it was presented was a bit tasteless.
Hi Health.
What exactly was the moon landing on? And when did this happen?
; )
Oomis:
I don’t have the time to again answer. I understand English. I do understand where you’re coming from.
PLEASE. Don’t mitigate Torah study IN ANY WAY. For my sake. For YOUR SAKE. You don’t need that on your head. Read what I wrote about ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ????. Please. We all here know what parnasa, husbands and wives are. Not all know what Torah is. From your writing alone I detect that.
For one: Torah study is not only for Eluyim, great thinkers, sharp minds. It is for everyone. Everyone who studies brings the shechina to this world.
Two: A wife who consents, is not doing chesed. She’s doing TORAH. And it’s the couple’s decision, NOT YOUR’S.
I have so much more to write on this, I just don’t have the time. I just had to STICK UP FOR HASHEM’S TORAH.
Again don’t attack something until you really understand it’s true value. YOU DON’T.
One more thing, sister. Am Yisroel, HaShem and His Torah are one.
Rabbosai, it’s Erev Shabbos of America now. Are you preparing?
A mentor/Rabbi should not control everything in your life. He is a guide. You should be able to think for yourself when necessary. You know ourself better than anyone.
The problem with that line of reasoning is that you are biased, and its nearly impossible to make an unbiased decision for yourself. Secondly, your reasonings may be influenced by non torah concepts.
There is no one correct path to G-d. Everyone should find their own unique path that will enable them to reach their highest potential.
AGREED. Which is why we have Chassidish, Litvish, MO, Mizrachi, etc….
Yserbius, I actually heard Dr. Schroeder give a lecture on his book and he is the one from whom I understand that while the 6 days of creation can be understood within the framework of science, it still does not lead me to think that people evolved from monkeys or that it is even possible for one thing to evolve from something else. I believe that everything that is in this world is here with a purpose designed specifically by A Supreme Being. Can you explain how it is written that the only animal that has a split hoof but does not have two stomaches is the pig. Maybe some other animal is going to evolve into a similar creature? What about the ones that have a single hoof but two stomaches that are enumerated in the Torah. Maybe there are others that man has simply not located?
There is an feeling among some that the moon landing was fake because it refutes the Rambam.
Its like the Gemra that says the Atalef lays eggs and nurses its young which many say is a Bat. Since only mammals nurse their young (The only Animal that lays eggs and nurses its young is a Duck Billed Platypus)
There is a Rav in Far Rockaway that holds that Bats give birth to live young in the physical world and lay eggs in the Spritual world.
A wife’s consent is not enough for a husband to learn in kollel, one must take into account the children. How do you know they are okay living in poverty-like conditions for the sake of Torah? Who said they are okay with their mother working full time and not spending time at home for the sake of Torah?
sushe – I wanted to say that but I didn’t have my helmet on. I think that people who let other people raise their kids so they can work so their husbands can learn are SOOOO missing the point. Your Torah goes nowhere and you are ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ This is not a comment about whether or not people should be learning full time but I have no doubt someone will turn it into one.
ZK – I am sorry but I think you are mis reading oomis’s posts, I know you are mis understanding them. While I may not agree with all she says, she is definitely not saying much of what you are attributing to her. And even if she was, Nasty will get you nowhere.
A wife’s consent is not enough for a husband to learn in kollel, one must take into account the children.
We are assuming the family does not live in poverty. After all, they are paying full tuition! If not, then they have to ask a very specific shaila if they have the right to take Tzedaka in order to learn, as well as sacrifice any luxuries (A’se Shabbatcha Chol V’Al Yitztarich L’Briyos) in order to pay such tuition.
There is a Rav in Far Rockaway that holds that Bats give birth to live young in the physical world and lay eggs in the Spritual world.
Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro ZTL (Of the Moetzes in EY) says the same. It (IMHO) is part of the basis of Torah U’Mada.
A wife’s consent is not enough for a husband to learn in kollel, one must take into account the children. How do you know they are okay living in poverty-like conditions for the sake of Torah? Who said they are okay with their mother working full time and not spending time at home for the sake of Torah?
This is why I am only willing to date girls whose parents promise large amounts of money, even though I am not planning to learn. Even if I am willing to overlook money issues and marry a good bas yisroel who has good middos, I don’t have the permission of my future kids.
We agree, right?
GAW- +1
Too many people abuse local yeshivos by taking scholarships. I heard a story of someone with a $150,000 a year salary applying for scholarship because “why not?” Other stories of people lying about vacations and summer homes to schools so that they can take scholarships. Tuition is a bill like anything else and needs to paid in full. Yeshivos happen to want everyone to get a Torah education (as opposed to the electric company who couldn’t care less if you get electricity if you don’t pay in full) so they offer scholarships. Too many people take what they don’t need and the yeshivos suffer.
Yet another peeve. Some of our month names should be changed back from the ones that make us utter the names of false idols such as Tammuz. How about Chodesh Ha-Aviv, Chodesh Sheini, etc? ALL the names of the months we use now are BABYLONIAN and not Hebrew.
IMO it does not give kavod to the Torah when people come up with excuses about the physicallity of the moon (Moon Landings never occured) , Dinosaurs or that bats lay eggs.
Intelligent people understand that science knowledge has changed especially over the last 150 years and still respect.
chodesh Teves is mentioned in Esther.
As is Adar.
“The problem with that line of reasoning is that you are biased, and its nearly impossible to make an unbiased decision for yourself. Secondly, your reasonings may be influenced by non torah concepts.”
That is true, which is why one should never make big decisions without thoroughly taking everything into account from all angles, as well as consult an outside, unbiased source. I was just referring to trivial matters, which one should be able to think out for themselves. And about non torah concepts, of course, if they are ANTI-torah concepts, it would be problematic, but not all concepts and influences of our societies are anti-torah, and that can be seen by anyone that lives in our society. So yes, it is great to have a mentor/ Rabbi as a guide, but not to control your life in every trivial matter.
“AGREED. Which is why we have Chassidish, Litvish, MO, Mizrachi, etc….”
Yes, and no. It is good that we have different types of Jews that one can “fit in” with, but at the same time, many people don’t fit in to these categories according to the stereotypes that people have unfortunately given to them. But once we have these categories, and it is clear that there is no one correct path for everyone, it should ALSO be clear that it is foolish to call out another type of Jew on something that they do, because though you think you are right, you should realize that they are also right, for themselves, and they are reaching their potential in the best way for them.
Musser Zoger: The name Ester is also mentioned in the Megillah. That doesn’t make it Hebrew.
YehudahTvzi: Rav Schachter explains why we call the months by those names when according to the Ramban there is an Issur D’Oraisa in naming the months. He says we rename the months as a Zecher to major Geulos. Thus, the numbering go from Pesach and the names from Purim.
Syag, again, I don’t have time now to go through reading and posting. Just peeking in to clear my head from some demanding brain-work.
This is an excerpt from what I intended to pen back to Oomis. I abandoned, it was taking too much time (I can’t write English that well), and stored it.
(b) I did that for dramatic effect.
(d) I apologize.
MP- I agree with you again! When I was in yeshiva there were those that had the need to ask a shaila for every little thing. It was ridiculous.
Sam2– I wasn’t arguing that the words aren’t Hebrew. Only that there is a basis to the babylonian names for the months that precludes us from going back to their original names. The babylonian names were good enough for the Anshei K’nesses Hag’dolah it’s good enough for me.
i think anyone that puts vinegar on israeli salad should be chayuv missa. anyone that uses lemon juice from a bottle should be flogged and anyone that puts iceberg lettuce in an israeli salad – ein lo cheleyk. those that hand squeeze limes instead of lemons – harei zeh meshubuch.
in response to simcha613 who stated: “I heard a story of someone with a $150,000 a year salary applying for scholarship”
a family of 7, after taxes your $150,000 becomes about $100,000. you have 4 kids in yeshiva, each one asks for $11,000 meaning you pay $44,000 in tuition. You have rent of about $2500 a month and student loans and credit card debts of about $1000 a month. thats $42,000 a year right there. Car payments and car insurance cuts another $500 a month. there goes another $6,000. 4 shabboses a week cost you another $1000 a month, and there goes another $12,000. and now youre $4000 in the hole. and you have nothing to save so youll never buy a house. you cant afford a babysitter, yet alone a night out so you never go out. we havent even discussed summer camps.
dude, a person making $150,000 may need a scholarship.
i have heard from a number of yeshiva executives that they expect a high earner to set aside 25% of his income to yeshiva tuition. a person making $150,000, thus, should pay $37,500 in tuition. if that person has 4 kids in yeshiva, thats $9,350 per kid which means he needs a scholarship.
i believe the problem does not lie with the high earners. it sometimes lies with those kollel folks who have had their parents/inlaws pay for their homes, supplement their income, pay for their vacations, pay for their cars and end up having a better standard of living than the high earners but then come to the yeshivos expecting to pay nothing for tuition because they are in “klei kodesh.”
ZK – not sure what you were trying to say, sorry.
i have heard from a number of yeshiva executives that they expect a high earner to set aside 25% of his income to yeshiva tuition.
Hate to say it (and Al Todin does apply), but you would hope that “Yeshiva executives'” expectations do not limit or force someone to take Tzedaka when it isn’t needed.
Of course, it is possible that the 150K earner has a wife who is sick CV and he can’t afford the payments. But none the less, it is still Tzedaka.
“PLEASE. Don’t mitigate Torah study IN ANY WAY. For my sake. For YOUR SAKE. You don’t need that on your head. Read what I wrote about ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ????. Please. We all here know what parnasa, husbands and wives are. Not all know what Torah is. From your writing alone I detect that.”
Wow! I do not mitigate Torah study. I mitigate EXCLUSIVE Torah study to the exclusion of earning a necessary living, and putting the achrayus of earning that living on other people. And the way girls are being brainwashed nowadays in Seminary, they beleive that if they are NOT ok with fully financially supporting their husbands, they are de facto not n’shei chayil. That’s wrong, it’s not in line with what we are taught all our lives that the role of the woman in Judaism is to be the one who runs the home and raises the next generation of Torah-true Jews. When she is out earning the living (and THAT IS her husband’s tafkid), she is NOT attending to her home and family. Someone else, whether it is a Bubby (if she has a mother who is available and not working to help support her married children herself), or a (hopefully) frum jewish babysitter, or non-Jewish housekeeper, will be raising those children. Kind of defeats the purpose for which Hashem created us, according to all the teachings that were given to me, and then to my daughters, regarding the amazing role of the Jewish wife and mother. And that role IS amazing. But is is most certainly not being fulfilled nowadays, by overworked and over-extended young wives. SOMETHING has got to give somewhere. So what worth is the FULL time learning, when it comes at such a high price? Learning half a day (as so many married guys do) is NOT good? Sorry, but I believe you are way off base, though I respect your right to believe as you do.
“For one: Torah study is not only for Eluyim, great thinkers, sharp minds. It is for everyone. Everyone who studies brings the shechina to this world.”
When did I ever say that? You are paraphrasing me very badly. I said that not every guy who learns is or likely (ever) will be an iluy. An iluy IMO, SHOULD be learning fulltime, because clearly that is why Hashem gifted him with that special mind to make use of it.
For the rest of the guys in Kollel, who understandably enjoy learning and are decent at it, there is no reason why they cannot combine Limud Torah with making a parnassah, devoting part of each day to each pursuit. I guarantee you, Hashem is cheshboning their attending to their familial duties, as ALSO bringing the Shechina to this world, because part of that G-d ordained responsibility helps to maintain Sholom Bayis, and is a good example for the children.
And yes, it IS a chessed for a woman to go out and earn a living so that her husband should be able to sit and learn. Did you forget about Racheyl and Rabbi Akiva? But not every boy is a R’ Akiva, and not every girl is able to be a Racheyl.
Note : This thread is best when read with a cold bottle of booze….
L’chaim yidden, l’chaim!
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