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A simlple question i have on daf yomi is when you spend 40 minutes on barely understanding a daf a day how can you say you finsihed shas when you barely read the english and you didnt even understand every other line. when you are trying to understand something but you cant due to time, you just skip it i.e. dont fully understand it. wouldnt it be better to send 40 minutes everyday learning a mesechta roerly with tosfos and meforshim. i tried learning daf hayomi and it took me 2 1/2 hours to fully learn and understand the first daf without even learning tosfos. i dont understand the point of saying you learnt the whole shas when you understand a tenth of it. BTW i have no taaneh on people who learn it properly. I know chabad is against daf yomi for the above reasons so then why do they do their own rambam yoimy wether a perek a day or 3 perokim a day. i am not atacking eole who leanr daf yomi or chabadniks im just trying to understand the reasons.
nochum dokshitz:
should we do it together?Simple and quick answer is that for someone who you describe – i.e., gains little from Daf Yomi and will actually spend the time on learning something properly – then yes, Daf Yomi is not for him. For many, though, it is a Mechayev, and a way to connect with Klal Yisrael. The consistency and dedication are big plusses. And even if he doesn’t understand all of everything, he picks up Yedios in Shas that will help him in his future learning and Yiddishkeit.
a few points.
1) you say “when you spend 40 minutes on barely understanding a daf a day how can you say you finsihed shas when you barely read the english and you didnt even understand every other line.” speak for yourself. You say ” i tried learning daf hayomi and it took me 2 1/2″ Not everyone struggles so much with the first daf of berachos like you do. Though Kudos to you for persevering. Some people can get a basic understanding of most dafim in 40 minutes. (though retention is a problem)
2) “wouldnt it be better to send 40 minutes everyday learning a mesechta roerly with tosfos and meforshim.” Yes, I don’t think anybody disputes that.
The key though is every day/. for many people such “every day” learning quickly becomes not every day, We just concluded a busy yom tov season, I doubt many who learn “40 minutes everyday learning a mesechta roerly with tosfos and meforshim” in fact did it everyday, then there are weddings, busy with kids , tired from the clock change3) “i dont understand the point of saying you learnt the whole shas when you understand a tenth of it.” a few points a. It creates a sense of accomplishment that drives the daily learning that takes no breaks for yom tov, weddings, or clock change. and b. Many (if not most) who have done daf yomi have at least a passing familiarity with shas. I think that is a good thing.
hope this helps you understand the reasons. If you dont think these are good reasons, thats fine of course.
read a copy of r meir shapiro’s drashathe knesiah hagodolah in 1923 to understand the concept of daf hayomi.
I fully support your question
I gave a daf shiur for a year. I was putting in 3 hours a day. My biggest issue is I couldn’t remember it long term and that was devastating for me.
I started doing less mesechtos and more frequently and don’t feel guilty in the slightest.
Check out the hakdamah to the chayei adom. Many gedolim have said that gemarrah is only for those with 8+ hours a day to devote to learning.
I recommend looking into the kinyan mesaechta program. I think you would have a lot more hanah from mastering one mesachta rather then not knowing all of them.The Chasam Sofer said that the Torah is like an egg. You can eat it raw, half boiled, hard boiled, sunny side up, or scrambled.
For daf handouts go to dafyomi dot co dot il. For more advanced daf yomi go to shasilluminated dot org.
There is a better way of learning called oraysa where you learn an amed a day, revieing yesterday’s amed, learning 2 1/2 daf a week and on friday, shabbos review it.
“that takes no breaks for yom tov, weddings, or clock change.”
Not necessarily. Many Daf Yomi Shiurim do take breaks for Yom Tov, etc. And catch up afterwards. And some people, individually, take off from the Shiur for chasuna, simchas, work and other family or organizational events.
Feel free to not like the program for yourself, to wonder how others feel about it, or to ask for/recommend different learning programs. But not one of you is qualified to put it down, complain about it or present it as flawed. So it doesn’t suit you, great, find something else. Rabbi Shapiro zt”l was more qualified than we are and he seemed to think it was worth it. As lowertuition mentioned, go discuss it with him.
ujm
” …And catch up afterwards…”
Yep.
and of course many do meet on yom tov.
Many people who are learning daf yomi never learned gemora before. Learn the halachas pointed to by the Ein Mishpat – Neir Mitzva. The problem I see that they are spoon fed their whole life with Artscroll and not given a means to learn on their own. They should learn the idioms of the gemora and thereby helping them how to set words. There are two computer programs at jewishsoftware dot com, Gemora Tutor for idioms and Talmud Master for gemora’s logic recognizable through key words.
There is a site called realcleardaf dot com emphasizing better understanding.
These were indeed the arguments against af Yoim when R Shapiro proposed it – that now any ignoramus can say that they finished Shas.
First, you don’t have to say that you finished Shas. It is up to you. Second, I view this a modern variation of R Salanter answering someone who said he has just one hour a day – should he do Gemorah or Mussar. He said – mussar, and then you’ll find out you can find more time for Gemorah.
A simple way to expand is to mark up an interesting sugya during the class, and then expand on that topic separately.
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