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what does it mean when a shul is called ‘young israel’? I have davened at a few different young israels in different cities and they all were very different. Some modern, some very modern, some frum and some very frum. So what defines a shul as a young israel?
Young Israel is a(n inter)national organization that shuls can belong to. If a Shul belongs to the National Council of Young Israel, it is a Young Israel shul.
uh oh….. here it comes
Being a member of Young Israel. I don’t think they have any clear cut agenda, but on the whole they tend to lean towards modern.
Why is it that Young Israel always old people.
I grew up out of town where my father has been the Rabbi of a Young Israel for more than 20 years. All the women cover their hair and all the men are involved in Torah learning on a daily basis. The community has been growing by leaps and bounds and the “young” people far outnumber the “older” ones.
Every community is different and I think the term “Young Israel” can mean something different everywhere you go.
There’s a Young Israel shul in my area with lots a frum and young people (and they’re nice too).
I do think that every Young Israel varies in their hashkafic leanings depending on the area and the Rabbi of the shul.
YI USED to be thought of as having a certain (more modern) hashkafa. That is no longer necessarily the case today,as the shuls run the gamut from very modern to Yeshivish,depending on their balabatim and Rov. In my shul we have a very diverse group of mispallelim. I would say most of the women cover their hair, and ALL the new young couples coming in, are thus inclined. There is no one in my shul in whose home I would not be confident I could eat, in terms of their kashrus (can’t say the same for their cooking, though). Our Rov is a Torah Vadaas graduate, and he is very learned and exceptional at giving over a shiur.
your question was “what defines a shul as a young israel” the answer is belonging to the NCYI and following their rules.
For a shul to be affiliated, they haveto agree toertain standards.For example, all officaers have to be shomer shabbos,
women cannot be president of the shul,
Shuls look to affliate because the Young Israel is a ” brand “. In our shuls case, shul with a kosher mechitza thatould pass anyone’s muster, learning programs, daf yomi, shiurim but not Yeshivish ( women cover their, but very few black hats ).
Many of the young families that have moved in were looking for a community with a Y.I.
There are Young Israel shuls with women Presidents, and I know of one that doesn’t have any shomer Shabat male members.
FWIW the Orthodox Union has much lower dues, offers far more services, and is willing to accept a far wider variety of hashkafot both on the Left and the Right.
QAWS: This may answer your questions about why a shul would want to join up with the NCYI. http://www.youngisrael.org/
Oomis is right. In the 60s and 70s YI was very modern orthodox. Today, many of the YIs out of the metro NYC area have mechitza that would be just as much at home in an Agudah shul.
The big difference is, the socializing that goes on outside of davening and shiurim. Its not uncommon to have a mixed gender Laag Baomer picnic or Chol Hamoed trip in a YI setting (something that would raise a hue and cry in a black-hat crowd)
Plus, many of the YIs still have the dual flags up by the Aron Kodesh (and sing Anim Zemiros in that unmistakable tune!)
a harryish place where they make a mi shabeirach for the heigeler medina
Forgive my ignorance (naivete?). What is a “harryish place”.
Mr. Hock meant to write Harry-ish (meaning the members have names like Harry, Seth, Michael, Sally, ect, as opposed to Duvy, Moshe, Shloimi, and Rivky).
In essence, a very Americaninzed group. And the “meshebairach for the heliege medina” refers to the blessing of the state of Israel, printed in some siddurim. Again, a major no-no in an Agudah place, (other than bracha # 10 and 14 of shemoneh esrei)
Young Israel has to be orthodox. To me, that means when I travel out of town, I know that I can daven there as opposed to Jewish Center which tend to be conservative.
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Its hard to miss the cynicism in mrhocks posting. I would prefer he explains what he means. I would prefer he answers what he meant by his response. Mrhock?
charliehall, a Young Israel actually isn’t allowed to have a woman serve as president. There was one recently that elected a woman, and the NCYI voted to expel the shul from its membership because of it.
well said, totty!
why is a ‘harry’ who wakes up at 5:30 to daven and attend a shiur before going to work worse than a non-harry (don’t know what they call those – greasy??) who can be seen trying to find the latest minyan possible and then use that as an excuse why he’s late for kollel????
i’m not at all generalizing; i’m asking about specifics, cuz i know s/o who looks very very down on harrys and then often misses minyan cuz he’s ‘too tired!’
this makes me mad.
ok i’m over venting now that i’ve probably opened a pandora’s box.
why is a non-harry who wakes up at 5:30 to daven and go to kollel worse than a ‘harry’ who can be seen trying to find the latest minyan maariv possible and then use that as an excuse why he’s home late????
Many “Jewish Centers” are Orthodox, but not all.
the answer of course is that the one who does it right is ‘better’ whatever that means, regardless of if he’s a harry or not, but i belong to what you would call a harry shul (and i am not one btw, i’m brisk…don’t ask about the shul affiliation, too complicated to explain), and all those harrys attend the 5:30 mesillas yesharim shiur and daven after, while my amazing yeshivishe brother doesn’t wake up on time for davening and then pokes fun at the harrys. that’s really really not right, and i’ve seen it on many more people than just my brother; that was just one example.
maxwell since when have you seen a kollel guy get up for a 5:30 minyan and please stop generalizing
” why is a ‘harry’ who wakes up at 5:30 to daven and attend a shiur before going to work worse than a non-harry”
were not saying who is better or who is worse. but isnt the reason y the jews were taken from mitzrayim because they didnt change their language, names and dress??
and no offense to the people that daven at young israel shuls but what does “young israel” mean? is it not the zionist idea? when they tried to take frum kids and take away their yiddishkeit values and introduced them to the “young israel” a new secular world???
emoticon: You’re looking at the wrong yeshivaleit. Compare apples to apples.
yechezkel: Very often. My satirical response was exactly to point out the generalizing in the comment I was responding to.
i’m not really comparing. i’m making a point – that no one has a right to look down on the harrys just because of whatever makes them a harry, their names or what, if they are doing the exact right thing, and yeshivaleit who don’t do what they’re supposed to do – why should they be called yeshivaleit?? on the other hand, there are obviously plenty of amazing yeshivaleit who have yiras shamayim, etc, and those are not the ones i’m talking about. and there are harrys who do what the aforementioned ‘yeshivaleit’ do, but again, i’m not talking about them.
just don’t look down on any group just because they’re different than you. that’s all.
asf: when young israel was first established it’s goal was to save the younger generation from going off the derech. w/o it many ppl would have been lost from yiddeshkeit. and yes it imparts its’ congregants w/ frum zionism.
why is a non-harry
Please forgive the ignorance (yes, I know that I’m as ignorant as a stump) but what is a “non-harry?”
The Wolf
to Arf: My father-in-law was involved in the YI of Bushwick in the 1930’s and was mekarev many young boys going off the derech. Many years ago, my wife’s family was invited to simcha in Monsey and he was the and peyos, saw him , ran over and embraced him. When his other guests looked puzzled, he explained the he was one of the kids my ” Harry “, Young Israel father in law had found wanderng Bushwick’s streets on Shabbos
non-harry = my own invention because i couldn’t think of an existing term.
Young Israel is just another place with the necessary aids to help you connect to the One Above…
well said emoticon613 there are many harry’s with tremendous yiraas shomayim we shouldn’t make fun of them just bec of the way they speak and dress
yes we should because it’s fun. as for the young israel system…i have been shocked both ways when walking into various young israels in the US. some are great, the rav is wonderful, has proper hashkafah, is uncompromising in his beliefs, had an excellent chinuch growing up, and really helps the community. some…the rav is beholden to the board…his psak follows his paycheck…and teh members have one foot on teh derech, one foot on a banana peel, and are slipping fast. overall though i would say that the system is great.
For all of those looking down at YI: Back in the 30s and 40s, the assimilation rate was terrible. Many younger people thought that Yiddishkeit was for “old” people. YI came and made it “cool” to be frum. They were called YOUNG Israel to push that point. My mother-in-law who is almost 84, was born in NY and says that if not for the YI movement, there would be no Yiddishkeit in America. Perhaps she was exagerating, but not by much. Young Israel gave the kids a place. Young children are encouraged to participate in the davening i.e. a boy being called up at the end to sing Adon Olam.
to all of you smirking about someone more “modern” than yourselves: To many people ALL OF YOU are “modern” with your internet. So stop this sinas chinam. Lets all just look at all Jews as…Jews. Our holy brothers and sisters. Maybe that way Moshiach will finally come.
bombmaniac maybe we should make fun of people with terrorist sounding names bec it’s fun. fun is not a reason to make fun of another jew no matter if his name is harry or sam or shmelke.
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