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SmileyFace –
You (and people like yourself) are one of the main reasons I post here. Not every post is directed to you, and perhaps not every post is relevant to you (and perhaps not every post is something you agree with).
But every post I write is prefaced with this:
Is what I’m about to write going to inspire people? Is this the advise I would give a friend? My own child? My spouse? If so, I write it. If not, I reconsider it, becuase I never know who will read what I write. And while I may not be able to inspire everyone, a mis-placed comment, a mean-spirted comment may just be the thing that turns someone off.
Not sure if you’ll read this, or comment on it, but hopefully someone will read it and think about how careful they need to be when writing.
(natch, my sarcastic jokes are not included in the above, but that’s made obvious from the thread its noted on, that its not serious)
Anyways, glad to see that you benefitted from the post (even if it wasn’t mine)
Eclipse –
Same goes for you, but in a different way. We all face challenges; some bigger, some smaller, but to the person involved, its a mountain to climb.
Still, we are all in the same corral, and all fighting. Keep fighting.
I really miss Eclipse. I wish she would at least come back and let us know she is OK.
chesedname
Thank you for defending me! As you clearly pointed out I meant no harm and was totally misunderstood and taken out of context. I feel as though a mini witch hunt was initiated against me. Baruch Hashem all is not lost, there are still some members with reading comprehension skills…
WIY – even if you meant no harm and were entirely misunderstood, you caused additional terrible anguish to a mother in great distress.
This thread is odd. Most people on ywn talk light fun.
I don’t know what this is doing here but it’s a little frightening.
What’s with everyone picking on WIY? is it because it’s just easier and because everyone else is? WIY’s posts make a lot of sense and said absolutely nothing that should antagonize eclipse. I read them all three times and each time i get more bothered from this thread. I really truly feel for eclipse. But i do not see any harm in WIY’s posts.
so right
WIY- NOTHING is wrong with your post. Everything is true.
HOWEVER, it was said at the wrong time, to the wrong person.
theObvious
Thank you as well for having my back. I really dont know what got into everyone here…
It was entirely out of line and abhorrent, not to mention erroneous and unseemly, for him – a bochor – to tell a mother already in great pain for more than one reason that “you obviously have some kind of guilty conscience” and “you can always apologize and change” and that “you can work on yourself”, to mention some of the more offensive comments.
Mods
For heavens sake please end the madness and close this thread!
WIY- you don’t like to admit your wrongs, do you? It’s ok, neither do I!
Eclipse, I did not mean you ch”v and I did not mean davka this comment from WIY. For you I have nothing but empathy and gratefulness for sharing your insight. I meant the general attitude here and on every other Orthodox website I know.
Eclipse
I have done some thinking…Had I known the extent of your situation before posting, I would have been more sensitive and likely refrained from getting involved in this thread at all. I honestly had no inkling of an idea what you are going through and I hope you realize that there was no way for me to know.
You have my word I will treat you with the proper sensitivity you deserve in the future. Please come back. You are a well liked and popular member and this place would not be the same without you. Your contribution means a lot to many members so please, dont let my insensitive comments stop you from posting and being part of the chevra here.
Please accept my sincere apology. I hope and pray that things will start significantly improving in your life and the horrors that you lived through should become a distant memory. Hatzlacha with your daughter and everything else.
Wiy; I am not adding to this conversation, although I agree with so right a little.
WIY, you see? When you want them to, they won’t. They’re probably out to get you. (I would also be.)
I think she already changed her name. No need for the mods to verify; it’s better if we don’t know to look out.
As for the OP, it really is a very powerful message. There are certain Hanhagos of Hashem that we can only begin to understand after having our own children.
In further support of eclipse’s point: the Pasuk in Yeshaya says, Hatishkach Isha Ulah – does a mother forget her child? The Pasuk continues, Gam Eile Tishkachna V’anochi Lo Eshkachech – you might find one that would forget her child, but I [Hashem] won’t forget you.
So Right, that was his apology!
aries and bp totty-thank you so much 🙂
WIY:
As I wrote above, I thought your comments and position were not really called for. And then I read your last post. One part of me was very, very happy to see it. Another part of me had a question. Dont answer me, just answer yourself. Why did you apologize to her? Is it because she wrote what she did about her personal life? Or maybe that she is eclipse, and many people asked her to come back…? Maybe what I’m really asking you is if someone else had come on and started the same thread, but not said anything of their personal life, would you also have apologized? Like I, and others said before, it was not so much what you said, but how you chose to say it, and in response to what you chose to say it.
Smile E:
I’m a little late with this, but I just wanted to add my two cents. I have no idea what your life is about, but Hashem has given me my own pekeles in life. When a person is faced with a nisayon, they decide to go the route of “Hashem loves me”, or the opposite way. IMO, it is not always the persons decision, but may be based on outside factors (including which types of people are around at which times in the persons life). I will tell you from experience, when a person realizes Hashem loves them, (and I’ve touched maybe just the tip of the iceberg) it makes things a lot easier. And it makes life a lot better, and enjoyable. I wish I could put into words just how much Hashem loves you, just for being you.
I’ll give you the same bracha I gave eclipse. May you always be zoche to feel Hashems love, and Hashems presence (and His presents!) throughout your life.
Should I assume you’re female? If my assumption is correct, and should you ever need a little pick-me-up, I give the mods complete rishus to give you my email address. (Or just say the word here!)
Kapusta
This thread is starting to feel like the song that doesn’t end. Its hard enough apologizing. Now that I manned up and apologized sincerely it gets taken apart? I don’t know if Eclipse has truly abandoned this website or is taking a break for whatever reason or is now posting under a different name. But if after all is said and done, I apologized and if that’s not good enough for this crowd then I think Ill go the way of MOQ. Now that I mentioned that Bezras Hashem I intend to do that really soon I don’t belong here either.
Eclipse im so happy to see you posting again! Welcome Back!
Eclipse, I feel a lot better now that you’re back!
WIY
I, for one, have enjoyed your intelligence, your humor, and your ability to admit mistakes. If you leave, you will be missed.
eclipse
Hi and welcome back. Thank you for being Mochel me. It means a lot.
“I think Ill go the way of MOQ.”
Like I did. I told you you’re next!
Eclipse, you had me worried. I need you here and I am glad to see you back. And I am very happy that WIY understood that it was up to him to offer a sincere apology to bring you back.
WIY, i appreciate your apology as well, and hope that you learned something from this fiasco. Please notice when you post on various threads that many of us choose to skip them and not post because we don’t have knowledge and/or experience in those areas. We might ask questions at times but we don’t offer advice because we can’t it is an area that just doesn’t apply to us. For instance when you get into a discussion in Gemara or Talmud I am out of it as are many of the women because it is not in the realm of our knowledge or expertise and it would be foolish of us to offer an opinion.
A person does not need to know another person’s story, you just need to understand not to assume or jump to conclusions. You also need to understand that certain threads and certain posts are written for others to “listen to understand” and not to judge and analyze. That is when you put on your thinking cap before answering to figure out what the poster “needs from us”. Are they looking for chizuk, guidance, advice, etc. And that is when you check if you can answer the call. Do I have the knowledge and experience to help. That is different from posts that just ask for opinions or halachic answers.
You also need to understand the nature of people. Not everyone is like you. Even though you don’t take things personally, or comments don’t bother you, you can’t judge how other people will feel by your own barometer. You are very young and have not experienced what others have experienced. So people react differently than you do, and you can’t fault them for how they react to comments made to them, whether we know who they are or not. They know who they are and hurtful comments hurt, as you recently found out for yourself. You yourself thought it wouldn’t bother you but in the end you begged the moderators to close the thread. So I guess we can say lesson learned. Hatzlocha WIY, and lets move on from here with the knowledge we all gained.
eclipse- good to hear from you! The word chain game missed you:)
aries2756
“You also need to understand the nature of people. Not everyone is like you. Even though you don’t take things personally, or comments don’t bother you, you can’t judge how other people will feel by your own barometer. You are very young and have not experienced what others have experienced. So people react differently than you do, and you can’t fault them for how they react to comments made to them, whether we know who they are or not. They know who they are and hurtful comments hurt, as you recently found out for yourself. You yourself thought it wouldn’t bother you but in the end you begged the moderators to close the thread. So I guess we can say lesson learned. Hatzlocha WIY, and lets move on from here with the knowledge we all gained.”
You dont know what I have been through as you dont know me. You have no idea what experience I have in what areas and one doesnt have to be married to give advice on marriage if ones advice is coming from books and lectures and not their own “ideas.”
I dont take things personally here and I dont think anyone should although when someone lines up a personal attack on me it is unpleasant and I have been attacked by a number of people who most likely wont be apologizing and its ok because I dont care I forgave them already.
We should all read posts CAREFULLY and make sure we arent drawing the wrong conclusions before getting personally insulted or starting to attack the other person. Its best that we should all read a post a few times if you have to before getting all excited over nothing.
the.nurse
Thank you thats very sweet of you to say.
“You dont know what I have been through as you dont know me. You have no idea what experience I have in what areas and one doesnt have to be married to give advice on marriage if ones advice is coming from books and lectures and not their own “ideas.”
Sorry to say that books and lectures are meant to help those who are married because they can apply what they are hearing or reading to what might be going on in their lives. People who are not married and are reading those books or hearing those lectures cannot really know if that advice holds true or not because they are not in a marriage relationship where they can honestly judge the value of the book or the lecture.
No one would go to a marriage therapist who is not married or one who is not married way longer than they are, because they do not have the experience needed to be trusted with the special care that person or that couple need. Even if they were at the top of their class. It is the experience and the knowledge along with the compassion that experience and that knowledge brings that counts.
So I disagree with you that because you read books and you go to lectures, you as a young single man can give advice on marriage. And by the same token, you are not in a position to give advice on parenting. You can give advice from a child’s perspective because you have experience there but you are not in a position to give advice from a parent’s perspective.
About your other comment. What may seem like “nothing” to you may not seem like “nothing” to someone else and that is the point I was trying to get across to you. It is called “POV” point of view or looking at things from a different perspective. Just because it doesn’t bother you, or it is a nothing to you, that doesn’t mean that others feel the same way. So if YOU would take a minute and take a step back or a step to the right or left of your opinion and read it a few times before you post it, to try to see how someone else might “read” your comment and feel about it, maybe you would tone it down or edit it so that no one would feel insulted or that it is a personal attack on them.
Every coin has two sides!
WIY that apology was very big of you. You didnt mean any harm sometimes things are just taken differently than you meant it to be. Let us all take a lesson from this. Nobody is out to get anybody here. We’re all here to express our opinions on the topic at hand. Nobody means to hurt anyone else. If you do feel strongly about something then say what you think just dont put anyone else down in the process. I think if we work on that a lot more of us will feel comfortable to post knowing we wont get slapped down for our opionions. Slap down the topic not the person!
BEST IMA
I feel like I am misunderstood quite often around these parts. I dont know why. Maybe I have a tendency to speak my mind freely and not everyone can handle a dose of the truth. I dont know for sure what it is…
Eclipse
kol hakavod to you for speaking up. as a former teen at risk who has been (and put others) through hell and back you hit the nail on the head. the main things we can give the teenagers of our generation is unconditional love, acceptance (of them, not necessarily what they are doing), and open communication. WE CAN NEVER EVER GIVE UP HOPE ON THEM. may Hashem answer all of your prayers
WIY,” I dont know for sure what it is…”
If you don’t know why, maybe you should take to heart what people are telling you and really give it some thought. No one wishes you any harm and no one wants to hurt you here, honestly, I certainly don’t. But you can be and “are” hurtful to others at times and you just don’t want to or refuse to see it and accept it. If it is brought to your attention you just argue it away in your need to be right. You are not always right. Many times you are, but many times you are not and others are. Is the need to be right so important to you that you are willing to ignore the fine points others are trying to teach you? Is it only you that is able to teach others? Isn’t it a two way street?
aries2756
If my need to be right was so important I wouldnt apologize. I know Im not always right even though I often am. At least I apologize when I am out of line. I wish I could say that for others on this forum.
eclipse
” a dose of truth”…Try not to undo your apology,my friend:)
Im not. I just have a tendency to speak truth and truth is painful. Like there were threads where I posted Halachos and people got all bent out of shape because once you know something is a Halacha it obligates you to do it…
You get my drift.
You might not have noticed but many of us, including myself, have apologized when necessary and we didn’t have to do to it twice because we were sincere the first time.
So can we stop with the sarcasm and actually accomplish something here? Everything can be looked at from more than one perspective. It is like looking things from different angles, or looking in from different windows. You can see things differently from the front, side, back, etc. How do I view this, how will the OP view this comment, how will someone else view this comment, etc. Should I actually say this, maybe I should edit this out. After all YOU are the one that reminded everyone of the “edit” key. As a poster WE have the power of words, and those words in themselves have a power and once said that power is out of our control.
Why does this need to be another argument. I am just asking you to consider how others will feel about the comments you make. You made a point about people not being so sensitive about the comments. But you can’t change a person’s personality and people who are sensitive are sensitive. You can’t change other people, but you can change yourself and the style in which you post. YOU can be aware that people do get hurt and that YOU do have the power to control what YOU say. That is in your power while others might not have the power to “not be hurt”.
We do have to work on not being so sensitive but as you said about yourself, we don’t know your whole story and you don’t know ours, so no one knows which words are going to hit like bullets or knives to the heart. So the least WE can do, is be careful that are words are not harsh and judgmental. Am I asking to much for you to consider? Honestly, I am not trying to bait you or put you down here, really I am not. I would like this CR to be a nice, helpful place to be. And I do see that for the most part you try very hard to be helpful, bringing in very uplifting divrei Torah, etc. but that atmosphere is spoiled when things get out of hand and disrespectful.
So what I am asking you is, can you take what I said under advisement and give it some thought?
WIY !!!
Do everyone and YOURSELF a favor and dont look at this thread and hopefully it will disappear.
I hope WE All learned that 1)we all have feelings and pekalech 2)judgemental 3) Not go on and on and on when all we accomplish is more trouble.
WIY:
For some reason I get the feeling you misunderstood my last post, and its a shame that happened because it wasn’t intended to restart the whole debate. If you have a chance, please re-read what I wrote, if not, thats also ok. Just know there was some misunderstanding involved.
Eclipse:
Nice to see you back!! Stick around!
So Eclipse, how did the note writing experience go?
eclipse:
stuffed cabbage in Hungarian 🙂
(but I hear there are other languages that call it the same thing)
Eclipse, you deserve the best and your daughter is lucky to have a mother like you. Don’t worry, Hashem is watching over her AND you.
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