- This topic has 59 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 12 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Does anyone know if the search for the Tallis/Tefillin was successful or not?
Only if they found it with the afikoman
The Askanim and friends are now looking for volunteers for next week that are ready to join the search. They hired a local employment agency near Fairfield to assist in the search.”
Yeshiva World News… If you’re in the area then you may be able to help find it
You’re right this is serious and I was insensitive. I’m sorry iacisrmma.
According to WHEC, they’ll be searching again tomorrow morning. People are literally coming from all over to help search, and donors worldwide are helping support the effort with financial donations (WHEC).
Even if they find them, the Tefillin will need to be checked. The Parshas exposed to the elements maybe erased and the Battum maybe warped. Likewise mold may have set in to the Tallis. So everything maybe worthless and have to be put in Genizah. So it may end up back there. Although with all the money spent on finding it they will probably repair them.
“So everything maybe worthless and have to be put in Genizah. So it may end up back there. “
Genizah is not the same as a landfill
Serious question, Obviously Tfillin is Holy, but how much time and money is this search worth
Lets say $100,000 is spent on this endevor (They are looking for temp workers). Is it such a good use of limited funds on this
They have to search in Rochester so they will have to put people up at least one night in a hotel and get them to Rochester, so even if people volunteer its not free.
As important as the Tfillin are, couldnt they have decided to use the funds on something else?
I hear your sincerity but I find this post painful to read
Presumably a sheilah was asked. It’s a major Kiddush Hashem that we are willing to put so much money, time and effort into this!
It makes me feel very guilty about the time I borrowed someone’s Chumash at a barbecue and placed it in a bag that someone apparently accidentally threw out. I didn’t realize that there was anything I could do about it.
ZD, where did the funds come from? You make it seem like a decision was made to specifically spend on this instead of on other needs. That’s doubtless not the case.
There is a lot of money being spent on far less worthwhile endeavors than saving tashmishei kedushah from bizayon.
LU, agreed, it’s a kiddush Hashem.
Not questioning what is being done, but I imagine it’s a difficult call to make.
What if it were a siddur?
What if it were a newspaper with picture from inside a siddur?
Where do you draw the line?
The phylachteries have been found.
Its not just the money, Its very dangerous to go through garbage, Its not all rotten vegetibles, There are sharp objects, splinters, Really heavy stuff poisonus stuff like human waste or poison ivy or other poisons people just throw out. You also have to have people who know how to operate a cat machine, I doubt the garbage company allowed them to use their workers to operate the cats.
DY – that’s the first time that’s happened in a while.
Last night I shared the article about the search on my social media page.
A random friend asked, “Why is this thing as important?”
My reply: “It’s holy and so personal. This person cannot start his day without his tefillin. Often tefillin are passed down the generations. It’s more necessary and meaningful than a wedding band. It’s a big deal, to say the least.”
“Where do you draw the line?”
That’s precisely why we have Daas Torah. If these decisions were so simple and could be made based on how ZD (or others) feel, we wouldn’t need to have Gedolim – we could just post in the CR and ask posters what they think we should do.
I have never understood how people question Gedolim. If you think you know more than them, why aren’t you the Gadol?
edited
I can’t be a Gadol with such a screen name…
Often tefillin are passed down the generations. It’s more necessary and meaningful than a wedding band. It’s a big deal, to say the least.”
I am not sure they now can be handed down generation to generation. While the Battium are now mostly made of cow hide and can last for long time if left in a car can warp making them not kosher. The Klaf that the parshas are written on now is very thin and have a life of 30 years so the ink may crack making it not kosher. The tefillin needs to be checked and if there is a problem with one of the parshas they all must be replaced. Older Klaf is thicker and the ink doesn’t crack as easily. Don’t rely on me ask a Jewish scribe he will tell you the same thing.
Moderators – I’m just curious what I wrote that was edited. I don’t remember what else I wrote. I’m not complaining – especially since you seem to have posted everything I remember writing, and the idea I was trying to get across seems to be there, and if there was anything that could have been offensive, I’m glad it was edited – I am just curious what it was and why it was edited. Thanks!
Lightbrite: “Last night I shared the article about the search on my social media page.
A random friend asked, “Why is this thing as important?”
My reply: “It’s holy and so personal. This person cannot start his day without his tefillin. Often tefillin are passed down the generations. It’s more necessary and meaningful than a wedding band. It’s a big deal, to say the least.””
Lightbrite +1 Nice!
These are the kinds of things people should spread on the internet!
Except you can purchase a new pair if needed.
Tfillin getting lost is not so rare, yeah it hurts to pay the $2000 for a new pair, but you should be careful and protect them well so you wont lose them
LF- lol, maybe you should change your name to mine! Mine would work pretty well for a Gadol (except that I don’t think he’d be on the internet in the first place…)
Just because you can buy a new one doesn’t reduce the value of a particular pair of tefillin. Is this not the uniting band that connects one neshamah to Hashem in prayer every morning?
Tefillin to one man as the Torah scroll is to its congregation?
lightbrite +2!
I had a friend who lost her engagement ring (I think that’s what it was, but I’m not 100% sure) in the garbage bin. All the neighborhood kids put on gloves and searched for her! Yes, they did find it.
If people do it for engagements rings, kal v’chomer for their engagement ring to their Creator! (??????? ?? ?????)
I would just like to respectfully request that all posters please try to keep in mind that this debate is not academic. We are talking about a real situation involving a real person (who could even be reading this or have friends, family or acquaintances who are).
Please try to keep that in mind as you post. Thank you!
I was thinking about tefillin that made it through Auschwitz, were a gift from father to son, and/or from one’s grandparents after Bar Mitzvah.
Even if someone bought it for oneself, does it not contain heritage?
ZD From what I can see the garbage is in large dump trucks which is dumped for them and the volunteers then search it. The volunteer are are wearing protective garb so there is no danger to them unless they don’t follow protocol.
$2,000.00 is kind of high for Tefillin unless it’s 2 pair Rashi & Rabanu Tam. As far as where do you draw the line a picture in the newspaper of a page in a siddur or chumash in my opinion is not shamus at it was never printed with the intention to use it as a siddur or chumas. A part of a siddur or chumash that was printed to be used as a siddur or chumash or any other holy book would be considered shamus.
I think that greater precautions can be taken to safeguard Tallis and Tiffilin not only at this shul but in all shuls to insure that it doesn’t happen again. For example, not having a garbage can in the same room that tallis and tiffilin are stored. Placing them in a cubbyhole that doesn’t have a door than can be locked even just by a magnet to insure the contents don’t accidentally fall out.
I don’t think that it was the monetary value that triggered the massive search- since as ZD said, the search probably cost way more than a new pair.
Nor what is it for the sentimental value, or the fact that they may have historical significance.
It is the fact that tefillin are tashmishei kedusha and should not be in a garbage dump. Even if they were ruined.
In the zechus of all that was done to preserve kavod shem shamayim and kedusha, may those involved in the search be blessed!
Amen! And may it be a kapara for Am Yisrael!
The Zchus should be that people are more careful and learn to properly treat their tfillin.
I would just like to respectfully request that all posters please try to keep in mind that this debate is not academic. We are talking about a real situation involving a real person (who could even be reading this or have friends, family, acquaintances or enemies who are).
Please try to keep that in mind as you post. Thank you!
Moderators – I am wondering if some of the above comments could possibly cause hatred to Am Yisrael by the Goyim.
The Tfillin were not found and the search is over
“The Zchus should be that people are more careful and learn to properly treat their tfillin.”
zahavasdad: Really? Blame the victim much?
They were placed in a cubby. Maybe the trashcan was there, because if one noticed, the hallways were a bustle of lomdim coming and going. The tefillin falling in the trash can for all we know was unprecedented.
It was an unfortunate location of a trashcan. It could have been anyone’s tefillin. The storage was full. Maybe another bag was there or the cubby could have been deeper. Maybe the protective tefillin case and the wooden cubby had too little friction holding them in place.
Regardless… Is it not judgmental to insinuate that this person did not treat his Tefillin “properly” and failed to be “careless” (ZD)?
-Is he not in pain right now?
-Was it his fault that a trashcan was placed there? Is he the first person in history to have his tefillin accidentally fall from placement?
-Would it not typically been given a kiss and apology and life moves on?
-Is it fair to blame him for the unfortunate layout that day?
May the person who lost his Tefillin be blessed always. Baruch Hashem for all the people who are giving him support, sympathy, and empathy.
blame? suggesting people should be more responsible is now considered blame?
Thank you
“blame? suggesting people should be more responsible is now considered blame?”
If it had been a general comment not made in reference to a spedific situation, you would be right and it would not be blame. Since it was in the context of a specific person, and the implication is clearly that that person was irresponsible, it is blame and t/f loshon hora.
The comment is general
“The comment is general”
It was a general comment made in a specific context. It clearly implies that there was irresponsibility in this case – otherwise, why is it suddenly being mentioned here?
Think about it this way – if chas v’shalom, you left your child in the car, and there was c”v, lo aleinu, a tragedy, and someone started a thread about it, and then someone wrote a post about how people should be careful not to leave kids in cars, how would you feel? Would you think, “that comment was a general comment that had nothing to do with me, and just happened to be mentioned in the middle of a conversation about me?”
I don’t think “clearly” applies
btw, according to halacha, if you don’t mention someone’s name, but it is clear who you are referring to, it is still L”H.
“I don’t think “clearly” applies”
If anyone “chaps” who someone is talking about, it is l”h even if there are some people who don’t “chap”. There will always be some people who don’t “chap”, but that doesn’t make it okay.
If you saw the video the owner of the lost Tfillin was not the only one who stuffed in tiffin in a cubby hole where they didnt fit, He was just the unlucky one. It could have happend to anyone of those other people and if you go to many shuls a similar situation occurs. People just stuff their tfillin somewhere in such a way something could happen, Im sure tiffiln falls on the floor regularly and the owner doesnt know and some good samaritan jsut picks it up, Ive seen enough tfillin storage spaces where they look like they are about to fall out.
If it was a $100,000 diamond ring would you stuff it somewhere in a cubby hole or some other place where something easily could happen Kol V’Chomer one should treat there tffillin in such a way
if there were people who didn’t “chap” before, it should now be clear to everyone (from the previous post) that the victim is indeed being blamed.
There is no way that anyone can have trouble “chapping” now!
In life people get very jaded and dont change their daily routine. Unfortunatly it takes a tragedy for people to makes changes.
ZD, hindsight is 20/20. Thousands of people leave their talis and tefillin in cubbies in shuls all the time. There was the occasional theft (although a miniscule percentage), which is why, I’m sure, there are cameras, but this is an even more rare occurrence.
YWN reported: “In that shul close to 2000 people daven and learn there each day. The Tefillin were placed securely in a cubby outside the Beis Midrash.”
It is wrong for you to insist on laying blame.
I know I am going to be more careful and not leave my tfillin in shul anymore, they are too precious
” He was just the unlucky one. It could have happend to anyone of those other people and if you go to many shuls a similar situation occurs. People just stuff their tfillin somewhere in such a way something could happen, Im sure tiffiln falls on the floor regularly and the owner doesnt know and some good samaritan jsut picks it up, “
LU – the only thing obvious to me from here is your attitude and tunnel vision. Asking people to be more careful with their tefillin after this story is the lesson we should all carry and if you would like to shirk a message and point fingers that is your personal choice.
Syag – try reading your own words and following them.
I did EXACTLY that. I listened to you insist that someone is saying L”H in the face of someone else saying it isn’t. But you insist. I chose to be dan lkaf zchus.
And you’re the one who reprimands the posters for not being dan lkaf zchus over and over again. Here is an opportunity where someone else see’s the comments as NOT being L”H and you continuously INSIST that they are. Just sends all that Dan L’Kaf Zchus talk out the window. If you want other’s to follow your example, you need to set an example to follow.
Being dan l’kaf z’chus is not the issue here. You can be dan l’kaf z’chus what his intentions are, but the words and their context are what they are.
And they are not as “clear” to everyone. Perhaps the virtuous response is, “Oh, I had read it differently, let me read it again”.
Either way, I am not interested in arguing, obviously, which is why I don’t post. If you want to see things…it will be there for you.
And to clarify that last comment from the word “If” until the word “you” before it is hocked – it is a GENERAL STATEMENT to ALL of klal Yisroel in ALL areas of our lives.
I have had this objection before. I don’t know if it’s technically lashon hora, but I find it very distasteful when in the midst of discussion about an unfortunate occurrence or even a tragedy, people bring up what could or should have been done differently.
Whether the intention is to lay blame or not, that is undoubtedly the result, and whether it be lost tefillin, or a fire, or a vehicular accident, I sure hope the loved ones don’t read these discussions.
Save the safety tips for a different time, or keep it private.
Individuals perhaps, but not the klal. All such comments directed to the individual had been deleted.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.