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Ubiquitin;
One reason it’s bothering me is because I subscribed to this thread and didn’t realize until now that one can unsubscribe.
Another reason is because the thread was about Ezras Nashim and degenerated into an EMS vs. Hatzolah contest.
Thirdly, it’s one of these unprovable debates such as vaccines or climate change.
What do you mean unprovable? I can prove it to you right now ….!!!
See what I mean!?Uncle Ben -“What do you mean unprovable? I can prove it to you right now …”
Why is this topic any different than any topic in the CR or News – Most are just Opinon based?!?
The research found that the only Volly systems that worked was like in Balto. County, MD.
When a 911 EMS call came in, they dispatched the nearest fire station. A lot of EMS in this country is fire based. They gave the Vollys a few minutes to respond; and if they didn’t respond within the allotted time – they dispatched the nearest paid fire station.does this really need a response???
“and if they didn’t respond within the allotted time – they dispatched the nearest paid fire station.”i think even you would have to agree that in brooklyn ny
NOBODY responds faster than hatzolah
you personally have some issue with them
but you cant honestly claim they are slow to respondHealth,
“The purpose of EN is to provide a female presence in the case of childbirth. Most cases of childbirth are not life threatening, No matter how the posters demand that they are. So the creation of EN makes sense.”
I understand, and agree with you. Thank you for this explanation. To go a step further, if EN could field a team of certified nurse midwives to provide in-home prenatal care and attend planned homebirths, that would seem to be a fantastic potential resource for the frum community.
JEMS currently has an article on its website that is very laudatory of United Rescue in NJ. This is volunteer organization and it is based on the Hatzolah model.
Ky -“but you cant honestly claim they are slow to respond”
If you were actually Klug, you would have asked why does that EMS rate better than others!
Anyone with a half-brain realizes, if you need medical care, the sooner you get it – the better.
The reason that system works – the Vollys pretend they are professionals and act like them!
This means they try their best for the pt.I listed 3 cases, where I was present, where s/o called Hatzola, and they decided that the pt. didn’t need transport. 2 of them defintely did, but I wasn’t able to follow up on the third one.
NDG – “JEMS currently has an article on its website that is very laudatory of United Rescue in NJ”
Actually it was started by Hatzola Israel.
They (HI) submit PR articles to EMS World also.
Hatzola Israel is very different than Hatzola Non-Israel.
I haven’t evaluated them yet.Hellth,
You made a comment about “Volly” programs. United Rescue is a volunteer organization, as is United Hatzolah.
And the model is similar to regular Hatzolah in that there are embedded responders.
And I still am far from convinced of your ability to conduct objective evaluations. Nothing you have written suggests that you can.
“the Vollys PRETEND they are professionals and act like them”
Quite possibly the most ridiculous statement in this thread. Simply because by the admission of the author….”I listed 3 cases, where I was present, where s/o called Hatzolah, and they decided that the pt. didn’t need transport. 2 of them definitely did (btw, Im assuming you also assessed those pt’s and then either took them to the hospital yourself or summoned a 911 unit) but I wasn’t able to follow up on the third one.”…… admitting to knowledge of only .021% of just Flatbush Hatzolah’s call volume, let alone the entire NY Hatzolah system. Totally believable and statistically relevant…… oy. Why is there no sarcasm markup?? Oh well. I really have to be done with this thread. But every time I think I’m out….na’arishkeit pulls me back in!!
“I haven’t evaluated them yet.”
We await your wisdom with bated breath……That is if you’ve gotten your requisite 0.21% of the information you need to make an informed decision.NDG -“And I still am far from convinced of your ability to conduct objective evaluations. Nothing you have written suggests that you can.”
LOL!!! So who do you expect to give objective evaluations? Hatzola members? Or the PC public?
I was once like you & believed the Frum PC, but what happened that I changed my mind? I became a victim. There is no pubic outcry because very few know the truth!CAD – “Flatbush Hatzolah’s call volume, let alone the entire NY Hatzolah system.”
I’m amazed that you come here to comment on me! But I’m Not surprised, being that everytime you post on YWN, It’s with your condesending attitude!
How could you say Flatbush Hatzola when I wasn’t talking about them? I posted many times where I live! And it’s Not Flatbush!
BTW, If I visit there and sometimes I do, I won’t use any EMS, IY’H.Health
I stated that hatzolah comes fast and you counter with
They don’t want to transport????
Please follow the conversation!!
And try to respond civilly, if you are able.You posted many times where you live???
Another of your vanishing posts maybe?
You should really speak to the mods
Anyway anybody reading these posts knows exactly where you live in la-la landKy -“I stated that hatzolah comes fast and you counter with
They don’t want to transport????”This was my response:
“Anyone with a half-brain realizes, if you need medical care, the sooner you get it – the better.”Please follow the conversation!!
And try to respond civilly, if you are able.Hellth,
“LOL!!! So who do you expect to give objective evaluations?”
Literally hundreds of thousands of people before you. You keep proving again and again that you are incapable.
But you are welcome to avoid using them. But so many of us know many, many cases where people’s lives were saved by professional, competent Hatzolah members who performed with the utmost professionalism, respect and confidentiality.
I am sure we all hope that your blinding hate towards Hatzolah does not cause you to do, or not do something that will harm you or your loved ones.
Health
”This was my response:
“Anyone with a half-brain realizes, if you need medical care, the sooner you get it – the better.””’So now you are championing FOR hatzolah??
Cause they are hands down the fastest.LIES, LIES, LIES
From a misogynistic chasidSwissYankee
שכוחky -“So now you are championing FOR hatzolah??
Cause they are hands down the fastest.”You also missed my point!
“if you need medical care, the sooner you get it – the better.” Hatzola in most cases is Not Medical Care. There are exceptions to every rule.NDG – “But you are welcome to avoid using them. But so many of us know many, many cases where people’s lives were saved by professional, competent Hatzolah members who performed with the utmost professionalism, respect and confidentiality.”
You obviously didn’t read any of the posts till now! Of course I won’t use them. I was warning others!
“I am sure we all hope that your blinding hate towards Hatzolah does not cause you to do, or not do something that will harm you or your loved ones”
You so missed my point – my Blinding Hate was because I DID use them!
You so missed my point – my Blinding Hate was because I DID use them!
if you need medical care, the sooner you get it – the better.” Hatzola in most cases is Not Medical Care. There are exceptions to every rule
How could you say Flatbush Hatzola when I wasn’t talking about them? I posted many times where I live! And it’s Not Flatbush!
I’m sorry…..you are absolutely unhinged. There is no point in continuing this conversation. You are an internet Troll who revels in controversy. You come on a forum and extrapolate YOUR tiny experience with your local Hatzolah on to the whole organization. Don’t deny it, that what you were trying to do. I now remember where you are. Folks, we can safely ignore this guy. He can stare at his wall at his “three medical degrees” . Medic, EKG tech, and Phlebotomist. All not “degrees” btw. I’m so done…….
Ctrl Alt Del,
“I’m so done…….”
I think this is becoming your signature line on this thread 😉
CAD -“I’m sorry…..you are absolutely unhinged.”
REALLY? Tell me – do you use other SN’s, like 2scents?
“There is no point in continuing this conversation. You are an internet Troll who revels in controversy. You come on a forum and extrapolate YOUR tiny experience with your local Hatzolah on to the whole organization. Don’t deny it, that what you were trying to do.”
Who’s denying anything? Did you ever wonder why I’m extrapolating to NY Hatzolah?
I’ll tell you Why! Because a lot of guys that I dealt with, either work on NY H or did!“Folks, we can safely ignore this guy. He can stare at his wall at his “three medical degrees” . Medic, EKG tech, and Phlebotomist. All not “degrees” btw. I’m so done…….”
Sounds like you’re getting scared of the Truth – Mr. Hatzola?!?
I did post to e/o that I was a Medic – so No Chiddush here.
But EKG Tech & Phlebotomy is an OUTRIGHT LIE!!!
I’ve done Phlebotomy & looked at EKG’s, but I think a lot of Medical Profs. have done these skills.CAD
No we cannot safely ignore him.
He started off badmouthing one of the most selfless organizations in the current frum communities.
One cannot just sit by and allow that to go unchecked.
There are thousands (presumably) of people who peruse these boards who will not know to ”safely ignore him ”
His original rants painted hatzolah as an inept rescue organization that across the full spectrum does more harm than good (if he granted that they do any good)
B ”H through much time expended in boxing him in I was able to extract from him the totality of his issue for all to see.
He knows two or three cases where there was a negative outcome which he says came because hatzolah convinced the patient not to go to the hospital.
Really not such a big deal all of a sudden.
If could have just said, when In doubt, go!That is a far cry from his original
”Hatzolah is a terrible murderous organization stay far away call your local car service better than calling them”
battle cry.
So yes there is a point sometimes In combating foolishness
Hi. I’m new to this thread.
I want to speculate, remember – truly speculation, that someone wanted to help, interfere, meddle, impede, or get in the way, of an active Hatzolah call. With disastrous results.
Again, since no details are forthcoming, and since Hatzolah is a life saving, reuputable organization, I am duty-bound to judge them favorably over an attack of some anonymous internet “hero”. If you have a תביעה on anyone, including an organization, there are channels, steps to follow. Bad-mouthing one in public anonymously is not the way.
275723 medical emergencies called in
4414 emergency medical professionals
That works out to an average of
275723÷4414=62.***
So at a 40week work year it’s about 1.5 calls a week per person.Your math is totally wrong. You’re calculating based on the false premise that each emergency is dealt with beginning to end by one professional. Since there are multiple individuals involved in each call you need to take that into account. Say the average call involves 4 people (trained dispatcher, 2 EMTs and 1 doctor) that would add up to far more cases per person. I’m also pretty sure average case involves more than 4 people- probably closer to 7 or 8 people.
(not taking health’s side here at all- just pointing out the math)
I think this thread needs a name change.
You are probably correct
So multiply by 8
1.6*8=12.8 calls a week
Take off some for office crew…
So say 15 calls a week
Not a tremendous numberI think it varies a lot by location. An EMT in the country might respond to one or two calls a month whereas an EMT in the city might respond to ten calls per day.
By the way it’s a pleasure to dialogue with someone who actually talks to the issue on target.
ThanksApushit
Health salad?If possible, it might be a good idea to turn the last few pages into a separate thread.
Agree on the” change the thread title” call!
And according to Health he himself was a “victim” of hatzolah
Ineptitude , therefore they must have failed to save his life,as
We must be dealing with his ghost,everyone!Also have to add,as a wife of hatzolah member,of course
Not all are same skilled(of course my husband’s the best)
But they all have one goal to save a life! And remember which
Member and his arrival time are all preordained by Hashem.
They just pray to be proper shaliach! And theyr all human
Not Malachim so why the bashing of wonderful people with good intentions?CONCERNED mom
most of us are trying to figure out the same thing
thanks for sharing your husband with the tzibburAvram….how did you get an emoji in?????
MOBIL PHONE
LF -“If you have a תביעה on anyone, including an organization, there are channels, steps to follow”
Who said I didn’t? This isn’t my first post to you.
ky -“He knows two or three cases where there was a negative outcome which he says came because hatzolah convinced the patient not to go to the hospital.”
No way that I base my opinon on three cases?!? Where did you get that idea? You read into my previous post that it was only 3 cases. I wonder why you did that?
I had answered you already, but it didn’t make it through.Health,
You asked a question”No way that I base my opinon on three cases?!? Where did you get that idea? You read into my previous post that it was only 3 cases. I wonder why you did that?”
I’ll try to answer that.
Follow along as I paste two quotes from a fellow with the screen name health.1) I hardly seen them work, but in three cases I’ve seen, amongst other cases, they convinced the caller – no transport was needed. One of the cases ended up with a death.
2) I listed 3 cases, where I was present, where s/o called Hatzola, and they decided that the pt. didn’t need transport. 2 of them defintely did, but I wasn’t able to follow up on the third one.
So I think an honest observer would excuse me for thinking you are basing your opinion on three cases.
But In truth , you are probably correct. By now I should know you don’t mean what you write and half the time you probably don’t remember what you wrote either.
Sorry.Klug…..you are hilarious 😂. And your assessment of Health is spot on!!
cad
thanksKY – “So I think an honest observer would excuse me for thinking you are basing your opinion on three cases.”
I want to ask you something – I believe you when you say that you’re not part of H. I also believe CAD is part of them (Eg. Medical director, etc.).
So if you are just a little bit honest, Why didn’t you ask – how I came to my conclusions about Hatzola?!?health does this sound familiar to you ?
What I am doing is standing up to a disgusting online bully who is besmirching their name without giving any reason for doing so.
As I actually did post.(1503040)There. I’ve outed myself with all my alternate screen names
Now answer the simple question
”what is your beef against Hatzola? ”1500166Who do you think you are?!?
Just someone trying to figure out why you would publicly bash HatzolaWhy would I mention them on a public forum?
Firstly, who cares why. You said the facts were spelled out there.
Secondly because it would be common decency to back up your hyperbolic animosity with some sort of facts.(1500139)Wow!!!
That’s the smoking gun???
That’s your issue with Hatzola?
There is no issue mentioned there. Just someone (perhaps it’s you. Perhaps someone else) maligning Hatzola in a different setting.
Boy did I waste my time with you.
edited, again. (1499238)”I discussed this already many times. In this topic …”
Really? I just scrolled through all your comments on this thread. There is not a single one there that provides any reasoning or facts to back up your open animosity to Hatzola.
Just saying(1499181)How can badmouthing someone without giving any info be toeles?
cmon!!
a little respect for the readership here(1498902)Health
Can you provide some detail?
I can’t say I read every comment as there are currently 175 comments here. But I did scan them and I am quite curious.
In what way is Hatzola so bad?(1498160)This thread was going in circles, and now it’s going in circles around the circles. I think it’s done.
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