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can any one explain to me what the word yishivish means?
“Yishivish” is the way it’s pronounced in telz.
“Yeshivish” is the way it’s pronounced in other Yeshivos.
its meaning varies, depending on wh’s using the word.
can we ignore this thread and pretend that things like this don;t matter to us…just for the nine days?????please????what kind of message does this send to hashem that this question is even being asked.
It’s being frum, and ehrliche, not too worldly,with it but, not too modern, a bissel chassidish is okay, black suit, black hat, white shirt, good hashkofos.
im gona give the most general explanation i can think of: relating to a Yeshiva….( now that can mean, someone whose closely associated with a yeshiva or yeshiva lifestyle that promotes torah and mitzvos over materialism)
I think shikur already answered the question…
Maybe s/o should just clarify what all the types of ppl mean-or else we are gonna have a million threads!
p.s when s/o asks me what type I am i just say “Jewish”, you can’t go wrong.
BasMelech. How modern is “not to modern”. Where are you drawing the line? Can I have a second generation Iphone and be considered yeshivish, but not a 3rd generation (and certainly not a 4th)? what about my car? Is less than 4 years old to modern? Do I have to wear glasses that are at least 3 seasons old? What about my white shirt? If I wear Nauticas 2008 line I’m not to modern, but 2009 I’m modern? How bissel chassidish can I be? On my mothers side but not my fathers side? I only pronounce half my words with a chassidishe havara? Is black on black ok? Does it matter if it this seasons style? what is not to worldly? I listen to the news only 3 times a week? And what exactly is IT that I have to be with?
frum: okay, many un-yeshivish are frum though…
ehrliche: same as above
not TOO worldly: very relative
with it: un-yeshivish are also with it (i think. what is “it?”)
not too modern: if i’m not mistaken, “modern” is being used to refer to MO, which i think usually means un-yeshivish. so the definition of yellow is not “TOO” purple?
bissel chassidish: is this yeshivish or chassidish we’re talking about here?
black suit, black hat, white shirt: many un-yeshivish wear these also…
“GOOD” hashkafos: now that covers a VERY wide spectrum of hashkafos.
my point is, we are all jews, we are all brothers, we might dress differently, live differently, and accept all different kinds of “good” hashkafos, but at the end of the day, we are all alike in that we have one torah, one god, and one hope that moshiach will come and redeem us from golus.
and maybe we should look more into how to perfect OURSELVES, than what the word “yeshivish” means. especially during the nine days before the day our temple was destroyed because of sinas chinam, if you get my drift.
sorry for ranting.
may moshiach come and redeem us from this exile speedily in our days (and before tish’a b’av please)
pusheta
you are carrying your idea to the extreme.
If you applied such exactitude to other areas there would be no language whatsoever and we may as all be mute.
“My neighbor has a young child.”
How can someone say that? It is meaningless. What is a neighbor? Someone who lives adjacent to me? On my block? In my general neighborhood? In my city? In my country? And the usage depends on where you are talking about. A rural area? The city? Suburbs?
A neighbor in Manhattan might refer to within a block or so. In Texas rural areas, it might mean a ranch 20 miles away. Is the neighbor tall, short, a man, woman, adolescent, a gorilla?
“has young child”? An infant? a toddler? a 10 year old? A toddler is a far cry from a 10 year old, which one is meant? Is it a boy? a girl? Jewish? not Jewish? Mexican? an Arab?
“has a” young child
what does that mean. how can we use such imprecise language?
Is the child a slave? kidnapped? adopted? just visiting?
a birth child?
Terms in any language are always imprecise.
We use them and add further characterizations and stipulations to clarify them to the precision that is necessary to elicit the required understanding. This is quite elementary.
These particular terms you don’t like because they can carry potentially damaging connotations to some people is perfectly reasonable. But your argumentation as to their IMPRECISION is spurious at best.
I suspect however you are going to continue along the same lines.
Mod well said. In other words-USE YOUR SENSE AND STOP TAKING APART EVERY WORD THAT OTHERS WRITE.
This goes to many posters and many threads.
People take posts a bit too literally and seriously.
Hashem gave us all Sechel…USE IT!
I meant that the term Yeshivish is; just about anything goes.
Yeshivish is a style and mode of dress speech and lifestyle. Its an external way of looking or acting which may say something about te yeshivah the boy attended and the family he is from. It doesn’t necessarily mean a person is strict in their observance. You can be yeshivish and watch movies follow sports and listen to non Jewish music and do lots worse…trust me I know I’ve attented yeshivish yeshivahs. Don’t judge a book by its cover. I know plenty “modern” looking people who put many not modern looking peoples davenings, learning, and middos to shame.
As Rav Gifter Zatzal says, we should strive to be Torah Jews.
Mod-80. I am “carrying on along these lines”, because whole groups of jews are painted with labels, which often carry negative implications, and the labels are meaningless since they mean something different to each person. Despite the fact that they are meaningless, people use these labels to ostracize others, exclude them from educational institutions, and as potential neighbors, dont consider them for shidduchim and are a general source for the “us” and “them” mentality that exists among yidden.
apushatayid
Sometimes these labels are necessary to protect our children. We label ourselves frum and secular frai so that our children can distinguish from people we don’t want them to learn from.
Similarly, there are hashkafic differences between chareidi and charda”l families.
Someone who is Alexander might want his children to follow the Alexander Rebbe but by labeling himself just “Jewish” his children might not recognize clearly the distinction between Alexander chassidus to Gerrer.
Someone from a chareidi family might want his children to maintain his hashkafos to the exclusion of charda”l haskafos.
This doesn’t mean that the chareidi person is a better Jew but he is entitled to teach his children to follow in the haskafos that he was taught. This tool teaches his children to draw a line between who they should learn from and who not.
This can apply to shidduchim too. I think once a family has determined that the ideologies of the other side are in tandem with their own, they then do make the effort to make sure that the person lives up to them in terms of middos etc.
The decision to label people did not start recently. Look in the chumash and you might notice that there have been thriteen labels in klal Yisroel going back quite a while. In addition to another two labels within one of those labels.
You didn’t understand anything i said.
what’s charda”l – i never heard that term before.
Mod-80. I understood you quite well. I dont think you are trying to understand me. Either way, we just have to agree to disagree over the use of certain labels.
Derech. The torah has a term for what you call those labels. Bnei Yisroel.
Whether you are an aleksander chassid or a gerrer chossid, to use your example, at the end of the day, you are both torah observant jew with a slightly different derech (maybe bigger than slightly, I am not familiar with the derech of either chassidus), and (i am guessing) there are no negative connotations to saying you are “an aleksaner chassid” or a “gerrer chassid”.
But the negative connotation are only in the mind of people who want to stay away from those types of people. I think for the most part people who are those that are being labeled take pride in their name.
For instance someone who is secular may take pride in himself as a “secular person” for his “logical, scientific” approach to life as opposed to the “religious” Jews who are “illogical, cavemen”.
On the other hand a religious Jew will take pride in his being “religious” because he lives a life of emes as opposed to the “secular” who live lives of “taiva”.
(this was only an example of what people may think- please don’t read too deeply into it)
Charda”l: Chareidi Dati Le’umi. They are the type of people who send their children to hesder yeshivas. They may have long peyos and beard but dress in jeans and a t-shirt.
I personally find no issue with labels as long as they arent negative or derogatory like bum, bummy, loser, ois varf, tuna beigel, and other such pejoratives.
My favorite topic; labels.
OK here’s my take:
Borsalino style hat, brim up weekdays, down for Shabbos / special occasions you are yeshivish.
If your boys shave, they are yeshivish (tzitis out are a plus)
If you have a trimmed breard, you are yeshivish.
If you have a full beard, you are SUPER yeshivish
Payos for boys = yeshivish
Payos for totty = might mean a touch of chassidus, unless accompanied by a full beard but borsalino style hat, which would mean SUPER yeshivish.
Defining girls / mommies are harder, but 16 pasenger vans and snoods in public screams super yeshivish (extra points scored if the snood covers the ears)
I could go on, but in the end its really a subjective question
emoticon613:
Charda”l is rashai Taivos for CHAReidi DAti Le’mi – meaning seriously religious nationalistic Israeli.
btw… To me, yeshivish means a big stress on frum APPEARANCES, i.e. the white shirt, black pants, black hat and (usually) tzitzis out.
The “yeshivish” person may OR may NOT be actually more serious about their actual observance than a non-yeshivish person. I don’t think one should ever judge actual frumkeit or ehrlichkeit(i.e. seriousness about their Yiddishkeit) by appearances.
Yeshivish or Chasidish has little to do with appearances. One can wear a color button down shirt and be either Yeshivish or Chasidish or both. A Chosid might wear a suit, tie and “down” hat.
BTW, if Charda”l (CHAReidi DAti Le’mi) means “seriously religious” and “nationalistic Israeli”, by your very definition the “seriously religious” is coming from the chareidi description while the “nationalistic Israeli” is coming from the DAti Le’mi description. When did the term of Charda”l come into vogue? (I know the term Chareidi [at least in the U.S.] only came into vogue in the last 10 years or so. Prior, they were called “Ultra-Orthodox”.)
CHARDA”L came in to play just in the last few years.
This is largely the result of aliyah by frum people.
Frum people from chutz la’aretz (by, let’s call it YWN, or New York, standards)are NOT chareidi by standards of Israeli chareidi. They also do not fall into the camp of Dati L’eumi (mizrachi type).
Most fall somewhere into a category that is some combination, some amalgamation of the two, hence…
CHARDA”L!
“Defining girls / mommies are harder, but 16 pasenger vans and snoods in public screams super yeshivish (extra points scored if the snood covers the ears)”
Okay, BP Totty, now this is getting scary. If I don’t already know you, I think we have to meet.
My husband and I have deemed the ear-and-eyebrow-covering-snood-wearing, 16-passenger-van-driving women “weapons of mass destruction.”
LAer, I hope I misunderstood your meaning of WMD.
So, in the end, the definition of someone “yeshivish” may or may not depend on his appearance, may or may not depend on his actions and may or may not depend speech and lifestyle.
Well, I’m glad that clears things up for someone as ignorant as I am. 🙂
The Wolf
LAer –
LOL! But the truth is, at some point or another, all CR people begin to think alike.
Look at it this way Wolf. Yeshivish is best defined as compared to the person standing next to you. To some, I may be a greased out, frummed out ben toirah, to others I may be a “moderneh mentch” and to yet a 3rd I might be cookie cutter lakewood. (I’m neither and all 3 rolled into one..it just depends on who’s doing the judging)
And on the topic of yeshivish, how soon can we start calling you Volvie? Or Zevi? That would be a REAL yeshivish statement!
Isn’t “Volf” quite a Chasidish name?
Until I lived in Lakewood,I thought people were either frum regular or frum chassidish, or modern orthodox or not religious at all.Now that I am here many years, I realize that there are all sorts of yeshivos so you can be yeshivish Lakewood, Yeshivish Ner Yisroel, Yeshivish Torah Vodaas, etc. Within the framework of yeshivish you can be more or less modern, more or less chassidish, more or less Zionist, more or less gashmiusdik,more or less tsniusdik etc. If you live in a town that is based around a yeshiva and your husband learned there, then you are yeshivish. If you moved there because it was better than living in the city for various reasons, then you may or may not be yeshivish.
Look at it this way Wolf. Yeshivish is best defined as compared to the person standing next to you. To some, I may be a greased out, frummed out ben toirah, to others I may be a “moderneh mentch” and to yet a 3rd I might be cookie cutter lakewood. (I’m neither and all 3 rolled into one..it just depends on who’s doing the judging)
In other words, as an absolute measure, it’s meaningless.
And on the topic of yeshivish, how soon can we start calling you Volvie? Or Zevi? That would be a REAL yeshivish statement!
I can’t stop you from calling me anything you want. People have been calling me things such as idiot, stupid, ignoramus, heretic, etc.* for a long time. So feel free to use whatever term you want. However, I’d advise you not to make it too obscure or else I’ll never know that it’s me you’re addressing.
The Wolf
* No, I’m not suggesting that you (or any other poster) would call me any of those things.
Isn’t “Volf” quite a Chasidish name?
I’m not Chassidish.
The Wolf
Exactly which Yeshivish crowd is YWN looking to serve? 🙂
Wolf said:
I’m not Chassidish.
The Wolf
So i can assume that you agree that chassidish means something.
“I realize that there are all sorts of yeshivos so you can be yeshivish Lakewood, Yeshivish Ner Yisroel, Yeshivish Torah Vodaas,”
Since its all subjective, I’ll add Yeshivish Yeshiva University to the list.
So i can assume that you agree that chassidish means something.
Maybe.
I would guess that being Chassidic means being a member of a Chassidic sect. But then again, I (in my vast ignorance) could be grossly incorrect.
If I am incorrect and “chasidic” has no true meaning, then so be it. Feel free to say I’m chassidic. I may not self-identify that way, but I can’t stop you or anyone else from saying it.
The Wolf
“LAer, I hope I misunderstood your meaning of WMD.”
myfriend, have you heard of sarcasm? Or am I not getting your post?
On the whole, I’d say all the CR people share some common traits, but like every large group, there are differences. Not good, not bad, just different. For 90% of the issues (Shabbos, Taharas Mishpacha, Kashrus, the need to daven /learn, ect), we most likely agree, for the other 10% (what to wear by davening, ect)is a question of chocolate or vannila. Both good, but both very different.
And one could be “chassidish” without being a memeber of a “chassidus”. Its hard to define, but if you experince a chassidisher tish / chasseneh / fabreng and feel that its speaking to you, you may not be a chossid, but there beats within you a spark of chassidus.
I suppose the same could be said for getting in to a pro sports event. If you’re really into it, the sports fan in you is alive and screaming. So who’s the real you? The identity you choose to see yourself / be seen as.
Choice is yours.
Why are we talking about such things?
Why are we talking about such things?
Because someone asked.
The Wolf
“a brand name”
“a brand name”
Heh.
Coke. Pepsi. Nestle. Home Depot. Nike. Yeshivish.
The Wolf (who is not a brand name)
Wolf, is today bash a wolf day?
no, wolf, like brisk,mir,ponovitch ect.
Wolf, is today bash a wolf day?
In some respects.
The Wolf
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