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We had this discussion in school and I was curious to see the CR’s take on it.
What do you think it means to be a real jew? In this world there’s fake versions of everything. Fake money, fake stores, counterfeit items, so what makes you a real or fake Jew?
This bottom line answer that I gave, and the teacher gave is: Someone who is trying to reach their 100 percent, their potential as a Jew. Someone who is honest with themselves and understands there is no “I’m good enough”, and that you should want to reach a spiritual place where you don’t watch movies, or go online, and live your life only for Hashem.
I find many people make the excuse “It’s not for people like me” or “It’s not on my level” well do you honestly want it to be your level?
People don’t want to. They don’t want to work hard. They don’t want to live just for Hashem…
What do you think?
Someone with two Jewish parents
to focus on serving Hashem 24-7 in whichever way is best for you rather its learning torah or doing chessed etc…
“Someone with two Jewish parents”
Why two?
Someone with a jewish Mother or who converted halachically
I have to agree with everyone who is saying it is a silly question. A real Jew is defined as ZD puts it, end discussion.
You may want to re-phrase your question as an “Oved Hashem”, not a “Jew”.
In that case, I’ll agree with MA (and I’m sure the Mussar Seforim bring both ideas).
An Oved Hashem is someone who asks consistently “What does Hashem want from me now”, and is willing to defy common society to do what the RBSO wants from them.
I see your “100% person” sweating the small stuff, while the Oved Hashem is more big picture.
Just a thought.
Shopping – EXACTLY how you put it. – Someone who is trying to reach their 100 percent, their potential as a Jew.
Shopping 613, a real Jew has a Jewish mother or a halachic conversion. Period.
Beyond that, you get in to “my kind of Jewish practice is better, or more complete, or more ehrlich, or more strict, or more valued by HKBH” (which might carry some accuracy from a personal perspective) and therefore I am a real Jew and you are less so (which is simply false).
And that’s just between ostensibly frum or chariedi groups.
I don’t understand the need for measurement of any element of one’s Jewish life versus another Jew. Measure yourself against the goals and standards Hashem sets for you and that you take on the responsibility for. That is really the only measurement that matters. And the only judge is the one in shomayim. He knows who is a real Jew.
“People don’t want to. They don’t want to work hard. They don’t want to live just for Hashem…”
Who are these “people”, and how do you know what they want?
I suspect the OP question was referring to acting as a real Jew.
There are a halachic distinctions which are based on ????? ???? ???.
Which is more than just having a Jewish mother or a proper conversion.
I suspect the OP question was referring to acting as a real Jew.
There are a halachic distinctions which are based on ????? ???? ???.
Which is more than just having a Jewish mother or a proper conversion.
In which case the response is not only wrong, but it is dangerous and can lead to Issurim.
The Mods have warned others about making assumptions about what others are thinking, and that certainly applies here as well.
A real Or lagoyim doesnt Troll
“In which case the response is not only wrong, but it is dangerous and can lead to Issurim.
The Mods have warned others about making assumptions about what others are thinking, and that certainly applies here as well.”
Do you know that “suspect” is different from “assume”? I wouldn’t assume that you do.
The Mods talk more about accepting a psak. Such as saying that striving to reach one’s tafkid (yes I am paraphrasing) can lead to issurim and is wrong.
“People don’t want to. They don’t want to work hard. They don’t want to live just for Hashem…”
Meno “Who are these “people”, and how do you know what they want?”
this is exactly what I wanted to say the way I wanted to say it. Could it be you’re me under a different username? I hope not because then one way or the other we’ll be posting on shabbes.
Shopping613 I agree very much with the idea that it’s important to want to improve.
However I don’t see the point in saying that one person is a real jew (wants to get to a higher level) and the other is not.
First of all, this hardly help you at all with your own torah and mitvot. That we are expacted to respect every person is for sure. What’s the point then of saying that one person is real and the other is fake?
And secondly you can’t really know who wants to get better and who doesn’t. People could be making progress in ways you’re not aware of. Also some people might have been Bney Alyia when they were young and lost it with the years. They may get back on their feet at a later point. You can’t really label them as anything.
nishtdayngesheft: “I suspect the OP question was referring to acting as a real Jew.”
Gavra at work: “You may want to re-phrase your question as an “Oved Hashem”, not a “Jew”.”
If the OP meant either of the above (which it sounds like it from her answer), then all of the following are correct:
Shopping: “live your life only for Hashem.”
MA: “to focus on serving Hashem 24-7 in whichever way is best for you”
Gavra at work: “An Oved Hashem is someone who asks consistently “What does Hashem want from me now”, and is willing to defy common society to do what the RBSO wants from them.”
That is how the Rambam defines an Eved Hashem – as someone whose entire purpose in life is to serve Hashem and EVERYTHING he does is for that purpose. This is a chiyuv and not a chumra.
Beautiful answers everyone, and may we all be zoche to be true Ovdei Hashem in whatever we do (even we are posting in the CR).
Should I be surprised at the absence of Shlomo Carlebach quotes?
Having Jewish matrilineal lineage.
To fulfill thanks potential you need to learn Torah
LU (summarizing others) “That is how the Rambam defines an Eved Hashem – as someone whose entire purpose in life is to serve Hashem and EVERYTHING he does is for that purpose. This is a chiyuv and not a chumra.”.
That’s a lot to expect from yourself though. I think the OP was talking about more realistic and practical definition. One that you could measure yourself against.
I would go with the Mesilas Yeshorim definition of zeirus.
?????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ??
To find what needs changing, and try to change it. I think that’s the minimum requirement.
Comlink – Why, what does Shlomo say about the topic? I would be interested in hearing?
I think I was thinking of “Moishele the Water Carrier”
(although I probably should’ve added a smiley to the post).
Person1: “That’s a lot to expect from yourself though”
I’m very curious about this sentence. Do you really think that is something so hard? I’m asking seriously, because I want to understand what you mean by that.
Do you mean that it’s hard not to think about yourself? If that’s what you mean, that’s not what the Rambam means (according to the one my Rav explained it to me).
The only purpose in life is to serve Hashem. That doesn’t mean that we can’t or shouldn’t think about ourselves. We have to do things for ourselves in order to be able to serve Hashem. But if we know that our only purpose in life is to serve Hashem, then everything we do is part of that.
Because how can you go to a bunch of seminary girls and say to them “Everything you do you should do in order to serve hashem”? That’s totally unrealistic! They have countless reasons to do everything they do, none of which has anything to do with the torah. Should they just “turn it off” and replace it with hashem? they can’t do that, (nor does the teacher)
I just don’t see how that’s a practical guideline by any means. They’re just pretty words.
Let me give you an example: Am I posting here to serve hashem? No I’m here because I enjoy it. So you might say: “yes but by spending a certain amount of time doing things that you enjoy you get the energy to spend time later doing mitzvot”. But that’s just another way of saying serving hashem is not so important to me. Because if it was, I wouldn’t need so much time reenergizing.
I don’t think I explained myself well I’ll try again when I’m not so tired…
It is a Mitzvah if the purpose is to reenergize.
I don’t know – I don’t see it as so hard. To me it’s a basic concept of Yiddishkeit and one that I was aware of before seminary.
And the fact that you need to reenergize doesn’t meant that your Avodas Hashem is not important – people are complex and have emotions and bodies that need taken of in order to function and be ovdei Hashem. That is how Hashem made us.
I suspect that boys may be different than girls in terms of how they relate to these things. I think this may have to do with girls being more “spiritual” and into hashkafa and boys being more black-and-white and into halacha. I think for a boy it may be harder to relate to a non-Mitzvah activity as part of his Avodas Hashem. This may be related to the fact that for a boy, his Avodas Hashem is mainly about learning Torah and it can be problematic for him to ever do anything but learn (unless he has a very good justification). For a girl, her purpose is more about doing everything l’sheim Shamayim (as opposed to learning Torah and performing clear-cut Mitzvos).
Or maybe, everyone is different, and different people have a harder/easier time with different things.
But I think I know many people who live this way (at least on a basic level), including children. And I don’t think it’s a problem to give it over to seminary girls. And I do think it’s something that many (if not most or all) people are capable of. I could be wrong, but I think that people who think it’s beyond them are either underestimating themselves or don’t understand what the concept means.
“Let me give you an example: Am I posting here to serve hashem? No I’m here because I enjoy it. So you might say: “yes but by spending a certain amount of time doing things that you enjoy you get the energy to spend time later doing mitzvot”. But that’s just another way of saying serving hashem is not so important to me. Because if it was, I wouldn’t need so much time reenergizing.”
The way I would put it is if you were on a higher level, you wouldn’t need so much time to reenergize, but since you realize that you are not on that level, you know that it will be better for your Avodas Hashem if you reenergize, and perhaps given the choices, this is the best way for you to reenergize.
That is how I look at my time here.
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