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Lenny
“Would you try and fix the marriage or divorce?”
I dont think a single poster here said not to try and fix the marriage.
Lenny1970,
Avram, imagine living a life where the children and grandchildren are full of midos. No money or health issues. But things are going terribly wrong in your marriage. Would you try and fix the marriage or divorce?
I would try to fix my marriage even if I R”L had money or health issues, or if my kids lacked middos. However, nothing you have written in this thread indicates that you are attempting to or have any interest in fixing your marriage. Rather, you are attempting to coerce your wife into staying married to you.
Consider the difference between:
I want to go into counseling so that I can understand you better, and understand what happened in our marriage, because that is important to me no matter whether we stay together or not.
And
I will only go to counseling if you drop the demand for a get. Otherwise it’s a waste of my $150 bucks.
Lenny:
I will not play therapist or Rov. But I will share a few words of wisdom, assuming it has not been done in earlier comments.
There are specific instances in which Beis Din can obligate you to give a get. These are few and far between. If you were willing, and she was not, the situation is similar. As the husband, your giving of a get must be completely voluntary. Biblical Law allows for the giving of a get against the wife’s will. However, the Chachomim (Rabbeinu Gershon) forbade this practice.
Having noted that very few situations of beis din obligating a get can exist, there is a different question to ask. Suppose you appear in beis din, and they cannot order you to give a get. What status follows this? Do you remain in a marriage where you are unwanted and undesired? Will that satisfy you? Will that be healthy for the children? Does such a psak have the ability to make your wife fall in love with you all over again? Will that repair the problems that existed in the marriage that led to the current level of conflict?
Most batei din take the liberty of obligating a couple to seek the assessment and intervention from a trained mental health professional. As nice as this sounds, does a beis din compelling someone to go to therapy create a change of heart? I do not say that changes will not happen, but this would only follow something that led to feelings changing. We can guess what some possibilities are. But a psak beis din would not be a likely reason for someone willing to divorce to reverse the pattern and restore a loving relationship.
This is a website, and you don’t know me at all. But as a word of advice – consider the likelihood of reconciliation squarely dependent on her willingness. You cannot make someone love you, and certainly not by legislating it.
Lenny1970,
Avram, if you’ve ever known a wife who has checked out, you would know your solution is more polyanic than anything else. But thanks anyway.
In reading through your posts to this thread, we find that:
1. Upon being told by a rav to do more to make your wife happy, you retorted, “how”? And 11 (!) years later, you still have no answer.
2. Upon “finally” hearing why your wife is so angry with you (that’s much different from “checking out”, by the way), your reaction is to discount and minimize her feelings, calling it “dumb stuff.”
3. When encountering slight difficulties, such as Rav Simcha Bunim Cohen not returning your call, or $150 counseling fees, you didn’t follow up, even though what supposedly is the most important thing in your life – your marriage – is on the line.
4. Almost every interaction with your wife you have described involves some form of coercion.
I don’t know if your wife has “checked out” or not. We haven’t heard her side. But it seems like you have checked out of the marriage yourself, and not recently.
Avrum – thank you so much for saying what I’ve been trying to say in a way that won’t be deleted by the moderators! And for wording it so clearly and to the point.
Lenny1970 -“We’re not in counseling b/c I see it as pointless if she’s giving me the silent treatment to include taking separate cars to counseling. So given what the posters”
The first thing you should do is go for counseling yourself!
Now two things can happen – either she’ll see that you’re trying and go for her own counseling and then the two of you can get marriage counseling or she’ll continue with the divorce.
Either way, the way you’re handling it now, e/o here doesn’t believe that you’re willing to do whatever it takes to save your marriage!
It really doesn’t matter whether you go to Bais Din first or second.
The impression e/o here has of you – it’s either your way or the highway!
Health, good post, I’m very impressed.
e/o = everyone. yw.
yw = you’re welcome.
Lenny, this is not a good place to get advice.
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