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Does anyone know how much a typical din torah costs?
what are the expenses that go into a “typical” din torah?
a lot of heartache stress and exhaustion
Free! Judges are not allowed to charge for it and there are still few such individuals available who do it l’shem mitzvah.
How much does a dayan cost?
With or without shoichad? I seriously do think a dayan charges $150/hr and up if he is serious and the case is serious. The ones who do it leshem shomayim probably can’t handle more than a simple divorce or perhaps a yerusha inyon. Shoichad can start around $50,000 for a heter mea rabbonim up to millions for dinei mamoinos if money laundering is also necessary.
I can get you a dayan for $50 – you know Nissim Dayan, he sells nuts in the shuk in Ashkelon? He does dinei nefashois too, well, at least he did, but that was 30 years ago and he did his time already.
I have an even better Moroccan dayan – his name is Dayan Kadosh – as in Shochad Ad Marom VeKadosh Shmo!
I once called a din toran in lovely Brooklyn. They wanted $150 for the hazmana, and 250 for the appointment. They were shamelessly to’im bidvar mishna, and it cost me about a year or two of ahavas yisroel. In Jerusalem, I tried to start a mekach to’us case with a “name brand” beis din, they contacted my baal din, the gabbai got back to me and said “try to work it out outside”. My impression, among other negative feelings, is that they did not want to deal with “small potatoes”.
It costs a good deal of money. Look on the website of any Beis Din.
The RCA website has their costs (google it). It ranges depending on the amount in controversy, but it ranges from 150 to 7500 in administrative fees, plus an hourly fee of 150 per side for a single dayan and 300 for 3 dayanim.
It is permitted for them to charge. Read the entire siman.
Also, you need to pay for your toen and your lawyer. You need both a toen to make the correct claims in beis din, as well as a lawyer to make sure you don’t do anything or say anything which will mess you up if you end up in the ?????? ????. I don’t know prices on this, but I can’t imagine it is less than 500 an hour for the two of those.
So you’re figuring at least 800 an hour during proceedings, and 500 an hour for outside work done.
(A get costs 500, on RCA website. I dunno what the lawyers charge.)
Rav Schachter doesn’t like toanim to speak during proceedings.
He doesn’t like it or he stops it?
A judge in secular court can shut up a lawyer, why can’t a dayan shut up a taon?
jewishness – There are ways to get around paying for Dinei Torah. If it’s a question like you want money out of s/o -you can ask a Poisek in your town who deals with Money questions or you can ask your own Rov. It’s better to ask the former because let’s say you’re right -it’s unlikely the other guy will concede because of what your Rov says. On the other hand if you ask a top guy in your town (you won’t be able to say the name of the other guy to him) and if he says you’re right -you might be able to convince your adversary that he should pay up and save the Tzar of going to a Din Torah. And if you ask and the Rabbonim say you’re wrong -you just saved yourself the cost of a Din Torah.
Just a note – sometimes you could be 100% right acc. to Din, but you might not win in a Din Torah, either because not all Botay Dinim are honest and even if the Bais Din you get is honest -they might find a loophole that noone could have dreamed about and you lose. This happens all the time in Bottay Din and in Goyishe courts. There is a reason that they always recommend trying to come to some agreement or Hapsharah first.
I know of a good beis din in brooklyn that does not charge anything. I know one of the dayanim personally and he is an adam chashuv(in my opinion). If this is a practical inquiry ask the mods to send me your email.
sushe: I don’t know details. From what I’ve heard he doesn’t let them in in the first place most of the time.
first of all a toeim is a lawyer for beis din and yes there was a whole heated article about rav schecter and beis din and toeim
Too expensive. Go to a small claims court. In secular court, the government pays the judge’s salary.
depends where and how much you are asking for
i just went to din torah in e”y it cost me 90 shekel an hour plus 80 shekel for hazmana
it is american english speaking
have option for overseas din torah
In secular court, the government pays the judge’s salary.
Yes, and isn’t that ridiculous? Why should society have to pay for these two idiots to settle their dispute? And if it isn’t worth it to them to pay for the judges, why should it be worth it to society?
In our local Beis Din one pays a flat fee of ~$50, and it covers everything from beginning to end.
Is it also ridiculous that a school nurse is paid for by the school/government? After all, shouldn’t the parent of the kid pay for each visit to the nurse – and if ots not worth it to them to pay, its not worth it to society?
These courts are in the public best interest. If you don’t have salaried judges, you have in effect established a threshhold for “kosher” theft, up to the point where the claim is worth more than the court costs. Court fees now are so low that this threshhold is irrelevant.
If you don’t like that, then take the berdichiver route. Look at the zechus of America, that they go so far to be mekayim (one of) the 7 mitzvos bnei noach that they completely sponsor even the small claims system. And the kollel system.
Papa, establishing systems of justice is one of the sheva mitzvos. Having the Government pay the judges is perfectly acceptable under the requirement of the mitzva
The Creedmoorer chassidim are often noiheg to pay secular judges when they become entangled in various legal proceedings.
I have actually had a positive experience.
A very well known Rosh Yeshiva took me – a not well known ballabos – to a Din Torah on a Hilchos Shchenim issue. I did not want to go, but had no choice. I did not take a to’en and simply stated my case. He was throwing around all sorts of lomdus that I hardly understood. I was intimidated but couldn’t do anything about it.
A few weeks later I got a letter from the Bes Din in the mail telling me that they essentially sided with me 100% but – for the sake of peace – they recommended certain things. The Bes Din emphasized that these are only recommendations and are not binding.
I had to pay the Bes Din a few hundred dollars – no huge sums.
The session lasted about 2 hours.
I must say that I was very impressed by the honesty of the Bes Din and how they were not swayed by this big-name Rosh Yeshiva.
I don’t know if I am allowed to mention here which Bes Din this is, but it is in Boro Park.
There is Mishpat Emess in a Jewish Bes Din based on my experience.
Not to mention, of course, that halacha too seems to think that paying judges a salary from the public coffers rather than having litigants pay judges for their time on a per case basis is an ideal way of minimizing bribery, keeping judges honest and hardworking, and ultimately vaguely accountable to the general society they are judging.
Is it also ridiculous that a school nurse is paid for by the school/government? After all, shouldn’t the parent of the kid pay for each visit to the nurse – and if ots not worth it to them to pay, its not worth it to society?
These courts are in the public best interest. If you don’t have salaried judges, you have in effect established a threshhold for “kosher” theft, up to the point where the claim is worth more than the court costs. Court fees now are so low that this threshhold is irrelevant.
Well, here’s what I’m concerned about.
Suppose A injures B, and there is questionable liability. The injury is 100 dollars.
A can spend 30 dollars on legal fees, and think he will win with probability of 80%.
B can spend 25 on legal fees, and will think he has only a 20% chance of losing.
So A will sue, because he is spending 30 for .8(100), for a gain of 50
B will defend, because he is spending 25 also for a .8(100) for a expected savings of 55.
They will not settle, because A’s expected gains are 70, so he will need to receive at least 70 to settle. While B’s expected losses are 25+.2(100)=45, so B will refuse to pay more than 45.
Now suppose the court also has costs of 30. So the total costs on society to litigate this suit are 30+25+30=85. And the plaintiff only expects to get .8(100) from the suit.
So isn’t it a waste of society’s resources for them to fight this suit? The plaintiff expects to get less money from the suit than they are spending to get it. It is like planting corn for 85 dollars for an 80% chance of getting 100! Why should society want this to happen?
However, if the parties will bear all the costs, then they will only litigate when there is more value in the suit than it costs, which will not waste societal assets.
So in our case, suppose the plaintiff has to pay all the court costs. So his legal fees are 30+30=60, and his expected gain is only 20. Meanwhile, defendant’s legal fees are 25 for an expected loss of 45. So defendant will pay plaintiff some amount between 20 and 45, and everyone will be happy, and no social resources are wasted. This is like planting corn at cost of nothing and reaping between 20 and 45! Doesn’t that sound like a better world to live in?
HolyMoe: To the contrary, please tell us which beis din.
popa_bar_abba:
“HolyMoe: To the contrary, please tell us which beis din.”
OK – I will tell you.
It was the Tartikov Bes Din on 55th Street near 14th Avenue in Boro Park.
What does a din torah cost?
To win or otherwise :)))?
To win or otherwise :)))?
To get them to throw the whole thing into a fair and unbiased secular court.
🙂
Depends. Would it require only shoichad or also intimidation of eidim? :))
Depends. Would it require only shoichad or also intimidation of eidim? :))
No Shochad. Making the Dayanim an offer they simply can’t refuse.
Assume the intimidation of Eidim and/or consequences of refusing is taken care of by a couple of “friends of mine” (practically family) from Mulberry Street (of course, now they live in a much nicer location 😉
Free @ least at
בית דין צדק גבעת המורה
Overview
Beth Din Givas Hamorah is a rabbinic court that adjudicates civil disputes between Jewish litigants who agree to be bound by Orthodox Jewish law as laid down in Shulhan Arukh Hoshen Mishpat and its glossators. Marital transactions such as marriage, divorce, yibbum and halitzah may also be executed in our court. Our court consists of a panel of three dayyanim (justices) drawn from a pool of over 20 rabbanim who are Talmudic scholars by profession and experts in Jewish law. In accordance with halakhah (Jewish law) and in order to preserve the integrity of halakhic jurisprudence, our beth din provides all its services absolutely free of charge. Moreover, our beth din will not accept any payment, donation or gift from anyone utilizing our services. Our beth din was founded in order to address the abuses and inefficiencies of most other major bate dinim, such as the endlessly drawn-out litigation process designed to exploit and maximize a profit from litigants. Furthermore, we are the only beth din who fully comply with the rule that hanotel sekhar ladun dinav betelim: whoever takes recompense to adjudicate, his judgements are null.
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