what do you think of daf yomi?

Daf yomi is for baal batim who don’t know how to. learn on their own. If not for daf yomi, they would never learn.

> what do you think of daf yomi?

Hard to think about daf yomi, as when you just start thinking about the daf, you are already on the next one!

There is a lot to criticize about the daf, but here are the positives:

1) covering whole material, rather than someone’s favorite pages. You get a feeling for breadth of the material and amoraic interests and expertise.

2) You see how ethical behavior is naturally embedded in halachic thinking

3) you see how involved Rabonim were in minute details of donkey rental (current page). You will not misquote siyum of Kiddushin claiming that the only possible occupation is learning after you read about what businesses Rab bis were involved in – and how a Talmid Chacham needs to be more careful in business (like not doing something that looks like ribis that is allowed for others)

4) If you are trying to memorize all halachic discussions, you are probably not doing it right. BUT, various logical arguments, halachic, ethical positions are stated multiple times. Not only you can remember them, you will understand them better when you see similar ideas in different context.

5) You don’t need to think hard what to learn the next day, the page turns by itself.

Try to look at the positive and look at the thousands and possibly millions of people that learn daf yomi only because they get that desire to complete the entire Shas even if it’s not learnt deep with all meforshim and details and then they restart it again immediately.

That otherwise might be possibly learning nothing or much less. You think automatically that if they weren’t learning the daf yomi that they would be learning something else? Not such a big chance. They joined their friends in the daf yomi group.

i think people who are looking for a daily limud should learn chitas – chumash – the parsha. say tehiilim (monthly cycle) and learn tanya (yearly cycle) and rambam. these are not too difficult for almost everyone. also tanya is a great sefer to get a proper hashkafa of yiddishkiet

> should learn chitas

with all due respect to the components of chitas, I did not know that proselytizing is allowed here.

to avira : copy paste from Do you know anyone, notably a rov, that shares your opinion on this?

avira, your the ignorent one here. you misinterpreted dira bitachtonim, if you would learn perek 36 tanya where its explained, it dosent say anything about hashem lacking anything chas vishalom. on the contrary, if you want to understand why this is the ultimite reasin and came before “ki chafetz chesed hu” learn the first maamer in 5666, its explained there at length,
anyway someone who cant understand tanya or rambam, can definatly not keep track of a long complicated sugya in gemara, just by learning day yomi an hour (or less) a day.
my point way that its a easier learning system. and even if you dont understand everything, you can go further in rambam

@always. i did not understand your comment. but btw all over gemara it quotes a mishnah or braisa from a whole mesechta, now most people can understand rambam like the rambam himself writes in his hakdama, i just wrote, even if someone dosent understand a halacha or a perek, he’s not lost for the next week as in a long sugya in gemara.
needless to say one should learn gemara, but not everyone can learn a blat a day properly.
from the introduction of the rambam to mishnah torah:
At this time, we have been beset by additional difficulties, everyone feels [financial] pressure, the wisdom of our Sages has become lost, and the comprehension of our men of understanding has become hidden. Therefore, those explanations, laws, and replies which the Geonim composed and considered to be fully explained material have become difficult to grasp in our age, and only a select few comprehend these matters in the proper way. Needless to say, [there is confusion] with regard to the Talmud itself – both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds – the Sifra, the Sifre, and the Tosefta, for they require a breadth of knowledge, a spirit of wisdom, and much time, for appreciating the proper path regarding what is permitted and forbidden, and the other laws of the Torah.
Therefore, I girded my loins – I, Moses, the son of Maimon, of Spain. I relied upon the Rock, blessed be He. I contemplated all these texts and sought to compose [a work which would include the conclusions] derived from all these texts regarding the forbidden and the permitted, the impure and the pure, and the remainder of the Torah’s laws, all in clear and concise terms, so that the entire Oral Law could be organized in each person’s mouth without questions or objections. Instead of [arguments], this one claiming such and another such, [this text will allow for] clear and correct statements based on the judgments that result from all the texts and explanations mentioned above, from the days of Rabbenu Hakadosh until the present.
[This will make it possible] for all the laws to be revealed to both those of lesser stature and those of greater stature, regarding every single mitzvah, and also all the practices that were ordained by the Sages and the Prophets. To summarize: [The intent of this text is] that a person will not need another text at all with regard to any Jewish law. Rather, this text will be a compilation of the entire Oral Law, including also the ordinances, customs, and decrees that were enacted from the time of Moses, our teacher, until the completion of the Talmud, as were explained by the Geonim in the texts they composed after the Talmud. Therefore, I have called this text, Mishneh Torah [“the second to the Torah,” with the intent that] a person should first study the Written Law, and then study this text and comprehend the entire Oral Law from it, without having to study any other text between the two.

I no Lubavitcher but I understand the point of view of the 6th Rebbe about Daf Yomi. I heard from elderly Chabad Chasidim who actually knew him that he did not advocate it because he felt that the mass learning of Daf Yomi would replace the type of learning that had been the common approach for hundreds of years in Eastern Europe. There were different groups for people of different abilities and inclination. There was a chevra shas, a chevra mishnoyis, a chevra ein yaakov, a chevra halacha etc. etc. He was uncomfortable with the promotion of the mass learning of Daf Yomi which (would have) replace(d) those groups. On the flip side he did not oppose Daf Yomi . Had Daf Yomi been another group associated with Chevra Shas he would have supported it. He never said his concerns mentioned above publicly because then people would (incorrectly) say “The Lubavitcher Rebbe opposed Daf Yomi”

Even though his concerns may have been valid in the 1940s today the chevra shas, chevra mishnoyis, chevra ein yaakov, chevra halach etc. are anyway long gone. If someone feels he will accomplish more by learning something other than Daf Yomi, then he should go ahead and do so. But the intrinsic concern the 6th Rebbe had is no loner relevant

As far as the 7th Rebbe and his approach goes … I’ll repeat something else my friend father was once told by the 6th Rebbe. “Chasidus can bring a person to very high madrogos but only if he keeps himself tied down to this world by learning gemora, rashi and tosofos” Enough said

Interesting mention of opposition to daf yomi based on more traditional strictures, like hevros tehilim/mishnayim/etc

It seems that pro-daf rabonim (not just R Shapiro, but those before and those who followed) responded to the needs of emerging modern Yid who is exposed to newspapers/philosophy/literature/techology/science, while those against were guarding the innocent balabatim. So, both might have been right for different countries and communities. This is similar how R Salanter marveled at shiurim in Germany where ladies showed up to listen. He said – if I were to do this in Lita, I’ll be kicked out.

I think people need to go back to עין יעקב, learn אגדה, that was always the way till daf yomi became so easy with an art scroll or shiur that a simple person can convince himelf he’s learning something when in fact he misses most of it .
If he would go to an עין יעקב shiur he would gain much more.
I would advise, don’t learn daf yomi before you completed learning shas properly, than you can use daf yomi for a chazara system.
Or if you have at least an hour a day to learn without any distractions then learn daf yomi (bidochak) and spend another at least 30 min chazering the sugya you’re holding by.
I don’t understand why people learn shas before they even learn chumash Rashi, (tanach I guess there are different views, but one who is learning shas, can also spend שליש learning tanach, (and the Baal hatanya writes after he finishes tanach he should use that שליש to learn Kabalah)
Anyway thru learning rambam one fullfills the mitzvah of learning kol hatorah kulah, witch one does not thrue learning shas (cuz many halachos are not from bavli)

On eyn Yaakov, it is not simpler than halakha. I think Gemora usually lists accomplishments in the order of : baalei chumash, mishna, halakha, agadah, in this order…