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note: this is a different question. Im not asking why we all think Hashem is sending… I would like to know what specific thing your Rabbi/Teacher/RY… has said about the tragedies, and what happened in Japan. It is hard for me to take a specific message from something as tremendous as Japan, and since I am a girl and I dont go to school or shul or yeshiva, Im afraid Im just going to recede back into my own little bubble of life, and not take anything from this major shakeup/wakeup..
I saw an article by Rabbi Shmuel Brazil on the web. ou may want to google it
WARNING! This is NOT intended to give anyone a pre-Purim laugh. If it does, it just proves how sad and serious the problem is.
Im no Gadol but possibly Hashem is shaking up the Frum world to pay attention to the tears of older girls who have little chance of finding Zivugim and starting families because of the scarcity of boys available to them, due to the insanely uneven ratio.
So Hashem kills thousands of innocent people to send US a message?
anon1m0us: I don’t think I understand what you’re posting. How dare anyone call them innocent??? If Hashem has taken them there is obviously a very good reason!
About sending us a message, yes, Hashem does send us messages in such forms. Just think about Sodom. They weren’t the worst. So why didn’t Hashem just let them die out in a more “natural” manner? Nachmanadies explains this point, it was to teach us a lesson, even though only Avraham was around, and was probably not even considered Jewish. It was a lesson for future generations as well.
Rashi in Parshas Vaara says this as well. (Shemos 7- 3)
How dare anyone call them innocent??? If Hashem has taken them there is obviously a very good reason!
Maybe, maybe not. But that doesn’t preclude them from being innocent.
Sadly, many infants die worldwide every year. By definition, infants are innocent.
The Wolf
anon1m0us,
So Hashem kills thousands of innocent people to send US a message?
We cannot understand why Hashem does anything He does. What we can understand is that Hashem has a relationship with us and controls everything in this world, including our lives and what we are exposed to or not. He has caused us to live and also hear of the terrible events that happened in Japan. Should we say, “that has nothing to do with us” and return to business as usual, or should we respond somehow?
truth be told: Don’t know what you are asking? What does innocence have to do with Hashem taking anyone away?
But to think Hashem would kill thousands of innocent people to send you a message is nonsense. The atrocities in Sodom was clearly spelled out in chumish and all merforshem, which extended to women and children. They were not innocent. If hashem punishes evil people, he would use them as a message, not innocent people. Do you think the Fogel family, A’H and may their blood be avenged, was a message to you? I think that is a sick way of thinking. Leave the calculations to hashem since as a human we are incapable of understanding his derech. Definitely do not make up chashboynis for him.
TruthBeTold, Tzaddikim never die young R”L or suffer? Even Moshe Rabbeinu did not know the answer.
Wolf:
“How dare anyone call them innocent???”
Speak to your Rav.
Ofcourse i dont think what you said is so true!!
The people in Sodom died because they deserved it. They were warned with volcanoes erupting all around them for fifty two years. Perhaps it would not have happened had we not been able to glean anything from it.
Why this happened I cannot tell you, but there are lessons to be learned. Just take notice and see how week we are and how nothing in this world is fool proof.
Of Course:
Why are we held liable for “the scarcity of boys available to them, due to the insanely uneven ratio”.
Is this shortage of of boys as a result of something we have done? I believe Hashem would never hold someone accountable for something which is totally beyond their control.
Get real. Please explain your post with a sensible explanation……
That’s fine. But that doesn’t mean that those individuals aren’t innocent. A baby bechor born to an Egyptian the night before yetzias mitzrayim was an innocent. The fact that he was punished for the sins of his nation is a separate matter — but he was still innocent.
The same can apply to our contemporary cases as well.
The Wolf
just because they may be innocent babies in this life, its very possible they r gilgulim and needed to be punished in this way
The Gemara says that children die for some sins of their parents. There is also the concept of being caught up in the punishment of the group. This might have been something the world needed more than the Japanese in particular.
I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that there is a tragedy occurring in Japan. Why it happened or the cause of it is not for us to delve in to. We are not Hashsem’s accountants or Navi that knows things. We should feel the tragedy of loss of life and hope everyone, Jews and Non Jews, will be alright. We can strengthen our own middos, learning or anything else. But we do not know the cause of why these tragedies occurred. To suggest otherwise is tipshus.
For example, a tipush could suggest that Japan received two nuclear bombs during WW2 because they housed Mirrer Yeshiva. Maybe hashem was upset with Japan for saving those Jews because they were litvish?? Didn’t you know hashem is a chosid and not litvish? Yes, it is an absurd statement, but when you start making up chashboynus, one can say anything! Leave the booba maises to yourself.
All we know is a tragedy occurred and we should davven for everyone’s heath (yes, there are Jews in Japan) and in the Zchus of them saving all the Jews during WW2, the nuclear reactors should come under control. Amen!
The Gedolim have a right to say why a tragedy happened. More than one godol explained why the holocaust occurred.
just because they may be innocent babies in this life, its very possible they r gilgulim and needed to be punished in this way
Again, maybe, maybe not. But that’s all you can go on. Once you throw the possibility of gilgulim into the mix, you can never say *anyone* is ever innocent. How do you know that [ insert the name of your favorite gadol here ] wasn’t a lowlife gangster in a previous life?
We define innocence or guilt based on actions that occur in *this* life, not on any possible former lives or future lives. By that definition, again, an infant is innocent.
The Wolf
No. The Godolim theorized why the holocaust happens, but not why it happened.
Eight paragraphs begin with “Because”, not “Perhaps”.
Anon1moUs, what you are saying is outrageous! Jews in Eastern Europe were going OTD en masse before the WWII.Yes, in Poland and Lithuania, in particular. Hence, the over 90% death toll there. In Russia, there was a gzeras shmad, and in Hungary there was less OTD. Hence, the bigger survival rate. It is important to know history.
It is a beferushe Gemora(Yevamos 63A) that HaShem brings tragedy upon the Umos to scare Yidden. Ve’hem einam neki’im — she esh lahem aveiros, ve’gam hem sirvu lekabel es HaTorah.
Anon1mUos, There is Tochecha in the Torah. Then, Jews in Eastern Europe go off the derech en masse. Then, the Holocaust. Quite obvious.
anon1m0us: There is no stira (contradiction). There are many reasons why the holocaust happened. What Rav Miller zt”l, the Satmar Rebbe zt”l, the Chazon Ish zt”l, Rav Henkin zt”l, etc. all said is 100% correct.
The Gemora also gives many reasons why the second Bais Hamikdash was destroyed. One gemora says because the women wore too much cosmetics, another says sinas chinum, and others have other reasons. They are all correct reasons.
“Satmar Rebbe said in his Hakdama to Vayoel Moshe that the sin of Zionism caused the Holocaust.
The Chazon Ish, R’ Henkin said it was because the Jews were violating the Oaths, which one of them was “that Klall Yisroel would not take control of Eretz Yisroel during golus”.
R’ Elchonon Wasserman Hy”d said it right in ther beginning of the tzoros. See his Ikvesa Dimshicha.
R’ Miller tells how he witnessed massive chilul Shabbos in Kovna.
Grandmaster, too much make-up(which lead to gilui arayos) was during Bais Rishon, sinas chinom — Bais Sheini.
Msseeker, Reb Elchonon was talking about all the “-ism”s — he did not place a tremendous stress on Zionism.
anon1m0us: The Gemora (Mesechtes Shabbos 62b) says a reason for the destruction was too much cosmetics. The Gemora also gives multiple reasons why the Beis Hamikdash was destroyed. One reason doesn’t contradict another. They all are valid. Do you also have an objection to the Gemora telling us the Beis Hamikdash was destroyed because of sinas chinam? According to the krum logic you are using, only Hashem knows why the Beis Hamikdash was destroyed. Same with the holocaust. The reasons given by the Satmar Rebbe, the Chazon Ish, Rav Miller, Rav Henkin, etc. are all valid and correct.
“Kittens and a College Textbook”
There was once a kitten who approached a college textbook and began to purr because it smelled like fish. His friends heard the purring and came to check out the cause. They all purred around the textbook agreeing that it indeed smelled like fish.
What’s the connection between kittens and a textbook?!
Back to the topic at hand: ??? ?????, ??? ?
“Thunder was created for no other reason than to smooth the creases of the heart” (Gemara, no clue where).
We each look at our own heart to see where the creases are.
Harav M. Salomon, shlita, says that thunder has many forms, including Yissurim.
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