What age should you teach your kid about Shabbos?

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  • #614482
    kfb
    Participant

    I had a friend over for Shabbos with his wife and 2 yr old boy. Everytime his son would touch a muktzah toy, my friend would say nicely don’t touch it, it’s muktzah… My son is 2.5 yrs old and he does all of our muktzah needs for us, like turning on the lights and turning off the AC if it’s too cold… What is the appropriate age to teach your kid about shabbos? Even if I told my son don’t touch because it’s muktzah, he’d have no idea what I’m talking about. He does know he can’t watch mickey mouse on Shabbos though. That’s as far as I’ll go.

    #1048236
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    You can start by telling him Orach Chaim 308:3:

    ???: ?? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???

    #1048237
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I dont have an answer for you, but I can say the following DONT tell a toddler constantly NO especially with their favorite toy, If you constantly tell a toddler that NO they cant play with their favorite toy, your chinuch might backfire and they will learn to hate shabbos pretty quickly

    #1048238
    nfgo3
    Member

    It seems that the opening poster has already taught his 2.5 year old son how to be a Shabbos goy. I would guess the child has already learned something about Shabbos, but what he has learned is wrong.

    #1048239
    farrockgrandma
    Participant

    Hmmm. Let me see, this was many years ago, but I made sure that we had the old time toys without the bells and whistles, and that’s what was out for the kids to play with on Shabbos. Meals, family time, table settings, kiddush, walking to shul (even if they go just for the last 1/2 hour) – the day is different in so many ways, children are learning about Shabbos very early.

    #1048240
    yaakov doe
    Participant

    His question should be “at what age do you stop using your child as a Shabbos goy? There’s nothing wrong with a non Jew being a Shabbos goy as Elvis Pressley and Colin Powell were, but it’s not a fitting job for a Jewish child.

    #1048241

    The MB says that if you tell your son to do anything (even a day old baby by Remiza) you are ???? a ??? because it says ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????. Regarding teaching them it always says when they reach Chinuch which according to most views is at 6 years old (certainly regarding a ????? their is no reason to be ?????). This is also brought down in somewhat in Simin 343 and also see the Shone Halachos by Reb Chaim at the end of Simin 344 for more references.

    #1048242

    (Exception regardless of decision for a d’var halocho, please?)

    Source used: Children in Halacha by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen.

    Chinuch for not doing aveiros begins at an earlier

    age than chinuch for doing mitzvos does.

    The stage of chinuch in negative mitzvos is reached when

    the child can be taught that something is forbidden,

    that is, they will not merely stop now only to do it

    again later (Mishna Berura, siman 343, se’if koton 3, b’shem “Acharonim”).

    Rabbi Cohen says the stage is generally reached

    at approximately four years of age (it varies).

    (Thus far from CiH pages 7-8.)

    According to this, you and your friend are not obligated

    to teach your sons about muktzeh. (Whether it is a good idea

    to start teaching muktzeh before you have an obligation to

    is a question which it is not for me to answer.)

    In addition to the requirement of chinuch, there is another Shabbos law regarding children. The Torah states (Shemos 20:10):

    [v’gomer] ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????, Do not perform any labor, neither you nor your son nor your daughter…

    We learn from this that parents must not allow their children

    to perform any melachah (forbidden act) on Shabbos. If a child does a melachah because he realizes that it will be beneficial to the parent, even if the parent does not instruct the child to do it, the parent is obligated to stop the child from doing so.

    Since this Torah prohibition, unrelated to the law of chinuch, is part of the parent’s own Shabbos observance, it applies even to children who are below chinuch age.

    Thus, the issue of chinuch and its appropriate age is relevant in regard to Shabbos prohibitions only when a child wishes to do a forbidden act for his (or her) own benefit. A parent whose child wishes to perform labor for the parent’s benefit must prevent the child from doing so, regardless of the child’s age.

    […]

    It should be noted that if a child did melachah for his parents or strangers, they are forbidden to derive benefit from that melachah (pages 66-7, emphasis added).

    I’m tired of typing this up, so for permissible ways to have a child below the age of chinuch perform melacha, see the rest of Chapter 12.

    (You are never allowed to let him knowingly

    do something that benefits you, though.)

    #1048243
    KPM6
    Member

    If the light is on in a room, it is preferable to hold up a baby in the area of the switch, who will play/shut off the light, over asking a shabbos goy.

    #1048244

    You may even put their hand on the switch, so long as the child does not understand that his action benefits you.

    #1048245
    barlev
    Participant

    Halach I don’t know, but a kid that is ???? ??? has an effect on his ????. I would refrain from using a Jewish kid to turn lights off,

    #1048246

    You’re not mchayev to stop your child from doing milacha but can’t get him to be your Shabbos goy

    #1048247
    Logician
    Participant

    Barlev – you don’t know halacha, yet you know what affects neshamos – hmn…

    The halacha is clearly not like you – using a young child in a permissible manner is preferable to a shabbos goy.

    #1048248
    my own kind of jew
    Participant

    I would say, if we’re talking about “preferable things” that it would be “preferable:” to not have a “Shabbos Goy” at all.

    Or is it perfectly fine and dandy for me to leave the TV on all Shabbos to the sports channel so I can watch the game?

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