what age is considered an older single?

It depends. Older than what?

I think there’s a handbook of Jewish terminology in which this is defined, along with other common terms, such as mo, otd, etc.

Joseph, I don’t know which MO and chassidish people you hang around with, but the ones I interact with have slightly different ranges.

I was once by a chassidish family’s house – quite ‘with it’ people, not hardcore chassidish, and the mother was sighing sadly about her single nephew. “It’s heartbreaking!” were her exact words to describe his single status. I was thinking about her nephew, and pictured him as a 28 year old boy whose classmates were all married. Then she said, “How can he be twenty and still single? He has a heart of gold!” I was quite flabbergasted – talk about culture shock! When I asked, they told me that the boys in his class started getting engaged at 18, and now he was one of the last ones left.

Based on other experiences, I do think that many chassidish people would start considering young adults “older” at 21. But it’s different in every circle, and if a girl is 20 but almost everyone in her grade is married, and some had already gotten engaged in 12th grade, then she would be considered “old” as well.

As far as MO, most MO people I know are just starting to get married at 26, which means that it is hardly considered ‘old’.

In case my quotation marks haven’t implied as much, I find this whole concept of 20 somethings being considered old ridiculous, but whatever.

Okay so basically when I speak about my circles you have to understand one more thing that my family isn’t exactly the circles I’m talking about. My family isn’t the school I went to type….etc….so let’s talk about the circles I personally am in

Girls start shidduchim 18 (some cases younger but very rare) and old would be considered 21 but still 18/19 is ideal

Boys mostly start at 18 as well (basically never earlier) and ideal would be getting engaged by 20 but not considered old until 22+

You have to understand the more chassidish the family the earlier these numbers go in kj/Monroe moms freak out if the boy is still 19 and not engaged…the yeshivah by 17 is full and the grade of 19 year olds is 3/4 gone

40. Anyone under 40 is not an older single, IMHO. There is no right age to get married, especially for girls who have no chiyuv to get married (although it’s a Mitzvah if they do), and therefore can get married when they feel like it.

On the other hand, boys have a chiyuv to get married as soon as they are mature enough, unless they are learning AND marriage will interfere with their learning. I think that even in that case, they are only allowed to push it off until 24, and nowadays, marriage is not necessarily an impediment to learning anyhow (although in some cases, it may be).

Conclusion: For boys it’s 25 and for girls it’s 40.

Joseph……In general I agree with your numbers. I would add 3 years in the Litvish and MO communities for those in Medical < Dental and Law schools…Perfectly acceptable to delay to finish a professional education.

Our 4 child finished Law School in December. She had done a year of Seminary after High School before college, add 4 years college and then law school and she was 26 when she married just before Pesach. The new son in law is Litvish. He was also 26, they met in Law School, fixed up by a professor.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/alte-bochor

Excellence- thing is by most typical chassidish people they don’t go to college anyway so if the girl has a job by 18 very likely she will still have the same job to support throughout the next few years….but basically most chassidish gurls have office jobs and teaching jobs and are not looking to further their education for a degree….so really why shouldn’t they get married theire lives won’t be different at 21 maybe more mature and the guys is the same thing ….so then simple answer to “why so young “is actually a question “why not”

Sparkly – It has nothing to do with laziness and that certainly was not Happygirlygirl’s point. Someone who is lazy would not get married at 18 and have a bunch of kids instead of going to college!!! You have to be extremely unlazy and hard-working to get married at 18 and have a bunch of kids!! On the other hand, a lazy person might ostensibly decide to go to college instead of getting married and raising kids!!

Anyhow, they don’t go to college because there are hashkafa problems with going to college and because they think that mothers are supposed to take care of their kids instead of going out to work and leaving the kids with babysitters.

I was very offended by your post even though I’m not Chassidish. Why is it necessary to insult people who do things differently than you?

Sparkly,

Having a good marriage and raising good kids takes a lot of hard work, and many more years than college, even medical school.

Sparkly – I spent many, many, years in school (at least 10 years including college and several years post-college) in very intense programs (probably the equivalent of medical school, but I don’t want to go into details). Prior to that, I spent a few years taking care of my younger siblings and the housework.

So if anyone is qualified to answer, I am. It was WAY harder to take care of kids and run a household than it was to go to school!!!!

Most chassidish schools including the one I went to has a lady who is quite famous till not sure if I’m allowed to say who even though she’s goes around everywhere and she brings “proofs and stuff” why you’re not allowed to go to college from any sect of a judaism. She brings this whole argument about rabbi shamshon refael Hirsh zatzal sayinga that he only gave a heter for that generation and not for our current one….she leaves out crucial information regarding that debate and thus the girls really believe it is wrong (in any case many chassidish rebbes Dont allow cause they choose to be more isolated for theur belief is according to how much your brain is filled with gashmiyus you have that percent left for ruchniyus 75 percent gashmiyus results in 25 percent ruchniyus) another thing she quotes is that rabbi avigdor Miller zatzal says that if you hang your college degree/diploma you are openly saying “I want to a school that teaches apikursis and I’m proud of it” .I don’t know if any of what she said is true or if a part is but I do know not everything she said is true….it was more of a scaring method she even said there there no kosher alternative to a degree even through sara shenirer/tti/bulka/touro (even the bp ones)…so between listening to their father and rebbes andlistening to this lady talk most chassidish girl’s do not get a degree

Absan and most others chiming in now: Mothers (usually) bear their children, they don’t just raise them. Taking this crucial component out of the equation seems blissfully ignorant. But the whole college versus mothering is just as ignorant. Sigh.

Mammele – good point! And don’t forget about labor!

LU -“40. Anyone under 40 is not an older single, IMHO. There is no right age to get married, especially for girls who have no chiyuv to get married (although it’s a Mitzvah if they do), and therefore can get married when they feel like it.”

Wrong! I started a topic called “Who wants to be a Tzaddikes like Rus”, over there I posted women do have a Chiyuv to get married!

From the topic called “Who wants to be a Tzaddikes like Rus” – Joe posted -“So, yes, 22 is a bit early, and perhaps the more appropriate age is say 26-27 before a dose of reality needs to set it for the girls, but if we understand the age gap correctly, and if they don’t want to be left stranded to a life of being single, some of them will need to compromise both on the age issue and on the previously married issue. Both compromises will add more men to the pool for the girls who are stranded after the young guys are married.”

so if I am litvis I still have 5 years to go. Oh no I want to get married by 20.

Besides what everyone has sad, the difficult pregnancies, labor, post-partum, sleepless nights, taking care of sick kids, dealing with issues that kids might have as they get older, whether emotional, medical, learning etc etc, and the fact that you can never take time off from being a mother, all of which makes motherhood much more difficult than college, the big difference is that mothering is Real Life. If you mess up an assignment, did poorly on a test, had a bad day in college- while it may be devastating at the time, in the long run it does not really matter. But when raising kids, everything counts big time, for generations to come.

This is coming from someone with advanced degrees who spent many years in college studying difficult subjects and is a mother.

Sparkly,

You have made it very clear exactly what you mean. My response remains the same. You have no idea what it’s like to raise kids.

At what age should someone be self-supporting? And by self-supporting, I mean self and spouse and children.

Meno, you have a self from the time you are born. No one is self-supporting then.