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Just by the way those who shave their hair don’t look in the mirror without a head covering. Their minhag is to always have their head covered!
BSD:
<sniffle> Thanks.
I find it interesting to note that a husband is allowed to annul his wife’s vow of nezirus on the grounds that he doesn’t want a bald wife.
If HKBH takes such a view that he’ll allow a husband to overrule a wife’s neder (which is otherwise an issur d’oreisah) with regard to such matters, surely He’ll overlook it if the OP doesn’t want to shave her head because it will cause shalom bayis problems in her home.
The Wolf
Following the advice of a Tzaddik doesn’t bring Tzoros. Whether you’re holding by it or not is a valid discussion, but don’t say it will cause problems.
Tzaddikim are not infallible.
Those that shave are more careful not to be without a head covering for even a second. I was at the sheitel macher plenty of times, where women prance around in their hair while looking for their sheitels, or those that ever so casually switch from one to the next.
It is a hard step and a big step. But not an impossible one if you are always careful to keep your head covered, which you should be doing anyways.
If HKBH takes such a view that he’ll allow a husband to overrule a wife’s neder (which is otherwise an issur d’oreisah) with regard to such matters, surely He’ll overlook it if the OP doesn’t want to shave her head because it will cause shalom bayis problems in her home.
Another proof is from Sotah.
If it will make your husband upset, don’t do it.
Tzaddikim are not infallible.
Neither are your own eyes. While it’s possible that Min Hashamayim they wanted him to make a mistake (as it says in Sefer Chasidim), we wouldn’t count on that.
I’m just the Ba’al Tschuvah in the room, but I have been given bad advice by rabbis before including orthodox rabbis and I must say that I have solved most of my own problems by myself with Jewish principles. That said, I am not really familiar with the need for a woman to shave her head and perhaps someone can inform me of the minhag. I do of course know that if you took a woman in battle, that you are required to shave her head. Being that you are clearly Jewish from birth I think, I can not completely understand how this might apply in any sense to you.
But that said, if you are looking to rid yourself of some evil in your life, I think that the best way to do this is to give to charities. Its better to give less to more than to give more to less charities. I have done this many times and am very pleased with how I personally feel. But I do not think that you are obligated to comply with every suggesting from a Rabbi, no matter his esteem. That is my personal opinion, though many here will obviously condemn me for disregard to a scholar and someone who they will say is clearly a tzaddik. (maybe or probably, but not my consideration).
I would imagine that cutting your hair completely off would have one benefit in that it would be easier to cover your hair in public which I am guessing you completely do.
But that said, I can not feel in my lifetime that I am going to obey a rabbi unless I completely feel that it is HASHEMs direction I feel was offered to me. If this is the case, do it and do everything you hear you must do by your rabbinic source. But that said, I must confess to you that many things that I hear from many of the rabbonim today do not in my senses feel that they are mandated or even considered at all by our Creator.
Thats exactly why Im torn. He would NOT be upset! BUT despite him respecting Rebbes, he very much looks up to his Roshei Yeshiva and Gedolim who dont think shaving is necessary and he’d just think Im going overboard. I feel he’d look at me funny. Hard to explain.
So discuss with your husband and follow his guidance.
basket: Your comment doesn’t sound too Orthodox.
sometimes i feel that the Gedolim give us direction and i feel Hashem would agree. then i listen to them.
but if i feel Hashem does not agree with the Gedolim then i dont listen to them.
my feelings are much more reliable than the Gedolim. and the Poskim also
Mod80: I’m sorry you feel that way 🙂
However, even if a Gadol has Da’as Torah (whatever that is), he is not omniscent. If he is not aware that (in this case) the husband would be mad (if he would have been), we can say that if he would have known, he would not have made the suggestion.
Unless of course you are suggesting that Gedolim ARE omniscent?
LOL, and delete it if you really don’t want to go here.
Pac Man, whats wrong with charity? Perhaps you can tell me what this articles writer is trying to acheive? If you want success, you should work for it. I personally think its great if you think that another person praying for your success is going to make you successful. I will profess that it will not. No tzaddik is going to make you more successful until HASHEM determines it is success you earn and deserve. Though perhaps having more people clamoring to heaven for your own success will get attention, I will suggest that perhaps there is more in your life to FIX that you CAN FIX that might be the real reason you are not finding the success you think you need. But that said, only you can know your degree of repentance, your merit and your influence of your own yetzer hara and its own “success” in your judgement and thinking. I will assure you that you can do no wrong by giving charity and that really is orthodox even if you dont want to admit that you can give to a charity and have a positive outcome for yourself as well. You can and will.
So fix your problems, master your yetzer hara’s influence and you will truly find good success.
I remember from the beginning of Horiot (and I paraphrase): If you follow the Gedolim and they made a mistake, you are not considered “guilty”. But if they made a mistake, and you know it, but you still follow them, then you are “guilty”.
I think that if you have questions about the advice then talk them over with the Gadol who gave you that advice. Maybe he didn’t understand your situation, maybe you didn’t understand his advice, maybe there are some other points that were missed on your side or his.
Listen to Gedolim, but don’t forget about yourself.
Hi. Reb Basket.
I’ll phrase a response the only effective way I see.
If I were a baal tshuva (I really wish I were, I have A LOT to do t’shuva for), I’d put away my great mind, dump it’s secular influence and knowledge in the nearest dump, and go to learn by a Rabbi. Of course a Rabbi you’re choosing has to have recommendations, but after that one must follow him BLINDLY. We are commanded in the Torah ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??, to follow our Torah leaders even if our arrogant selves see otherwise. That is the ONLY WAY to know a little of Torah, or to know what must / must not be done. To decide by yourself & act upon it, is foolishness. Nothing Jewish at all. Just because one ‘feels pleased with himself’ does not at all make it a fulfillment of the word of G-d.
A lot of things you wrote here are pure foolishness to one who knows a bit of Torah. Why am I pointing it out? To show you – one cannot do it alone. See where it got you.
I should really make a macha’a, a condemnation (if that’s the right translation) for disparaging our holy Rabbis etc. Iv’e read your site too. You do that there too. Actually more so. You equate yourself to Tanaim (Shamai, Hillel), judicially deciding one’s wrong here, right there… Rabbis rulings make problems, don’t make sense etc. You solve your problems yourself with ‘Jewish principles’. So to date you’re the biggest expert in true knowledge of the word of G-d. Which one of our holy Tanaim (Malachim – angles of G-d) are right..
Seriously you must quickly find a competent qualified Orthodox Jewish Rabbi, willing to guide you at this stage, if you really want to be a Ba’al Tschuvah
I generally do not write so strongly or pointedly, your comment necessitates it. (If not for you, then for others)
ZeesKite-
I refrained from mentioning the site so as not to lead others to it. But now that it’s out there, I ask- why is it (do you think) that this poster is allowed to have a link to his blog when no one else is allowed to link to even an innocuous site?
where is the link?
i am unable to find it.
thank you zeeskite and others who answered
no Gedolim are not infallible
neither are computers l’havdil
but if you want to plot a course to mars you had better use a computer and not your feelings.
Thank you
we learnt that it is assur for a woman to shave her head if it is not her minhag and her husband will be turned off by it. as far as shaven heads helping survivors. sadly most of those killed had their heads shaven too in the deaTH AND WORK CAMPS HEADS WERE SHAvEN BY THE NAZIS, TO FIGHT THE LICE EPIDEMIC.
THAT BEING SAID IT IS A DILEMMA BECAUSE YOU RESPECT THE WORD OF THE TZADDIK. I DONT KNOW WHAt you should do. have your husband ask his rov?
no Gedolim are not infallible
neither are computers l’havdil
but if you want to plot a course to mars you had better use a computer and not your feelings.
and the old adage GIGO applies 🙂
like I said if you ask be prepared for the answer…
The OP has said repeatedly her husband would NOT be upset if she shaved.
The OP has said repeatedly her husband would NOT be upset if she shaved.
But she also said that he would not really like it either.
But we don’t know and neither does she. She needs to talk to her husband.
Thanks Zees. I am curious what site you mention as I do have a few blogs, but I have not offered them here. But that said, I am confident that if HASHEM wanted me to be with a rabbi on a usual basis, he would have put me in a place where that is possible. I have not been confident in some of the rabbis I have met or know about to date, but that said, I am an avid reader of some of the rabbinic writings from art scroll and feldheim. That said, no one has offered me a response to my inquiry about why a woman might wish to cut all of her hair off and what significance i may or may not have. That said, I am a medical doctor and I do not feel that I can blindly follow any rabbi until I personally know that person and he personallly knows and works liberally with me on a matter. I do welcome such a relationship, but I will tell you that at the present time, that is a very unlikely relationship due to logistics and other matters. But that said, your points are with your clear leannings and I appreciate though do not agree wholehearted with a pure “the rabbi is the only way to God” approach. So thanks but I will keep letting my soul and workings be guided by A True Guide as I believe it is possible. If you take 2 steps towards HASHEM, he will take 5 or more towards you. So for a ba’al tschuvah, perhaps we have a slight advantage over the religious since birth since we had to really make a big decision and it is not always what one might think he would do given his current circumstances, family relations, occupational lifestyle and other things. Hashem is our Guide and I am quite sure that when it may become time for a special rabbi to be my partner and aide, that this relationship will exist. But until then, I must rely on my own intropection, intelligence, insight and hard work to get me to be a Jew who has merit, worth, diligence and hopefully if it be the will of my friends and our Creator, honor as well. Thanks.
She didn’t say he wouldn’t like it. She just said that she thinks that he thinks it is unnecessary. But that he is okay with the idea.
I go to rebbes for brachos and can only say one thing. When asking the rebbe advice, I DO NOT take his opinion to an anonomous online chat to discuss. I assume you may have another rov that you can discuss these things with. You could also have told the rebbe that this is something that is difficult to do and see what he says. To blindly listen to him and nod your head and then to go YWN CR to debate is utter stupidity on your part!!!!!
Her husband should get a screen name, come on here, and discuss it with the pros.
basket of radishes:
As Torah Jews, we follow the Torah and its laws. Those laws are the basis of our behaviour. Our feelings are not reliable indication of correct behaviour.
A Rabbi is not ‘the only way to G-d’ and I don’t think anyone would claim that. The Torah is the only way to G-d. We need our Rabbis to teach us the correct Torah way. And when it comes to matters not explicitly mentioned in the Torah, we rely on our Rabbis to direct us, even though we ourselves may not understand their reasoning.
It’s an intricate topic and a chat room discussion cannot fully do justice to it.
As for the topic of Chassidishe Rebbes and head shaving, that is a separate topic, not directly related to halacha.
Basket:
Again, some concept of Jewishness are just not up for discussion. If you want to serve G-D, just not the Torah way, well you could be a righteous gentile. Us Torah-true Jews have a specific way of doing things handed down to Moshe Rabeinu at Har Sinai. If your ‘soul guides you’ etc.. and you don’t feel like submitting yourself to daas Torah, feel free to start a new religion. Based on “my own intropection, intelligence, insight and hard work”. NOTHING related to being JEWISH!
BS”D
Zees:
Not to open a can of worms, but it can be strongly argued that the whole concept of “Da’as Torah” (whatever that is) is K’neged Yiddishkeit. One must draw a fine line (as Mod80 & I did above) between following Gedolim and worshiping them, C”V.
Now I don’t know the specfics here, but I like what chocandpatience added:
A Rabbi is not ‘the only way to G-d’ and I don’t think anyone would claim that. The Torah is the only way to G-d. We need our Rabbis to teach us the correct Torah way.
We have a Mesorah, and believe there is “Torah Shel Ba’al Peh”. Anyone who claims they can bypass the Rabbonim completely is no different than those who followed Tzaddok & Baiysus in the times of the Mishna.
Basket,
Having seen it, I will say that you have to learn the hierarchy of Torah Shel Baal Peh. I don’t know how long you are a Baal Teshuva and through whom, but reading here and there won’t do the job. The Torah as vast and deep. Much deeper than “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” or “he who laughs last laughs best”. I’m talking about Torah Shel Baal Peh.
gavra: Now I don’t know the specfics here, but I like what chocandpatience added
thank you
I keep learning. Every day. But that said, I have only the materials I have. I would love to hear a shiur or other engaging discussion in the future. We can keep learning, but I do feel that I have a good sense of Torah Propriety and I also think that the commands that I know are all in my capacity to keep. My goal this year hopefully might be to get a sukkah at my home. That may be somewhat expensive and perhaps in that time someone on here can help me a bit. But that is my biggest mitzvah that I realize I have not been able to keep as truly as we are commanded. That said, I do have the room for a sukkah and I just want to see how I can learn to construct one and also hopefully if I purchase it as a kit, that I get one that is worth the expense and useful for many more years. Thanks.
gavra_at_work:
What does that mean? What does ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? mean? Unless you feel bigger the Rashi and wand to wipe that out. But Hey, I think Rashi is quoting Medrash. OK, well using our great analytical minds we might argue against the Medrash… They weren’t in modern day… (sounds familiar?) I thought being frum orthodox means going all the way. I don’t know about you. I take that command seriously. To do else is to be ????? ?? ???? ?????.
WHO ARE WE (capital we) TO JUDGE OUR LEADERS??
??? ???? ?? ??????, very timely for Shavuos. You might need to do t’shuva for stating the above, all the more so for stating it in public.
Again, I really do not like to write so strongly, your comment necessitates it.
Basket:
Let me try to get through to you one last time. If you’re not going to go through the Torah way, well then you might as well give me the money. Doing all the mitzvohs ‘as you deem fit to understand’ does not make it the right way. To quote the Ohr HaCHayim HaKadosh (a great Rabbi, maybe you’ll “agree” with him), one who does mitzvohs not the way chazal instituted, ???? ??? ???. If you’re not doing mitzvohs the right way, learning at this stage through a competent Rabbi, you’ve not even started being a baal tshuva. Sorry. The beginning of becoming frum is to dump the “greatest mind ever developed” into the garbage. And opening our ears and hearts to our real Torah leaders.
B’li Neder, this is the last time I’m going to respond to you on this. (until I do)
gavra_at_work:
I missed one important point. Maybe you were referring to it. There is a concept somewhere of ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????. If that’s what you meant then yes, it’s within the boundaries of Torah Hashkafa to choose one who mostly resembles one. But once one decides to follow a Torah Leader who is muchzak (I don’t know what is means, how it works), one should follow him ‘blindly’. They are the ???? ????, we indeed are the blind ones.
If that’s what you meant then I wholly and humbly apologize for writing so strongly to you.
The Igros Moshe has what to say about this.
“The beginning of becoming frum is to dump the “greatest mind ever developed” into the garbage.”
I would like to hear from some of those seriously involved with Kiruv if this is actually true.
If I were just becoming frum ZeesKite’s Fire and Brimstone lectures above would turn me off.
It’s true.
Josh31:
You’re 101 percent right. I generally DO NOT write like that. I guess it’s when one stubbornly continues to spew anti-Torah views into the “Torah World”, I stand up for HaSHem & his Torah. Had he come to me privately, I (probably) would deal with him differently, like Hillel did with the Ger, here is a public forum. btw I’m regretfully not involved in Kiruv. (I wish I were)
Lets put it a different way. I was thinking (what??? me thinking?) This guy professes to be a medical doctor. OK. So am I! Yea. I just became! Yesterday, I found in my grandfather’s house some faded clippings about medical stuff. I read all three pages in a half hour. Well now I’m a Doctor. A full fledged doctor. I am now going to decide which procedures should be / not be done. I will not follow blindly today’s doctors. I use my own knowledge, what my soul makes me think. I do not conform to the thought that “a doctor is the only approach to health”. If G-d would have wanted me to study to be a doctor for years in college, he would have sent me there. In my opinion one who has r”l cancer should just take an apple and lemon for 3 days. It will go away. If not, give me some time to read some other clippings of medical stuff…
groisnaches:
If you shave your head, you will certainly get “special hatzlacha with important things”
How can you give up such an opportunity?
Zees:
Truthfully, I’m not sure what your complaint is (and you have been coming on strong recently).
To elaborate on what I said:
The system of asking Rabbonim whether I should buy a stock or not, or take my wife out for dinner or stay for seder, or even if I should stay in Kollel or not (as long as the question is not Halachic) (What some call Da’as Torah) makes little sense. Even if the Da’as is Kulo Torah, it knows little about stocks (Unless the Gadol is claiming to have had a Nevuah, of course). And even if he did, who says the advice is good for you, with all of your personal quirks (the general you). Which is why even in something the Rov does know somewhat about, we have GIGO.
What you are talking about is only in Halacha. In Halacha, we follow the Mesorah given to our Rabbonim from their Rabbaim up to Moshe from Hashem at Sinai.
As far as ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????, note the word ????, not business advice or minhag or shaving heads. No one will claim shaving heads is actual halacha.
Azoi zugt der heilige Maran Rashkbhag Hagaon HaRav Moshe Feinstein ?????????:
“There are people who maintain that Talmidei Chachomim are not qualified to decide political matters, that Gedolei Yisroel should limit themselves to Torah and Halacha. Such people cannot be considered within the Torah camp. One might well say ignoring the advice of a Talmid Chochom is far worse than violating a commandment. One who violates a commandment because he is too weak to resist temptation, at least knows that his action is wrong. By contrast, one who ignores the advice of a Talmid Chochom denies that a Torah scholar’s wisdom is superior. This is a far more serious breach.”
(Reb Moshe, p. 123)
______________________________________________
Igros Moshe, Even HaEzer 2:1
“My outlook is based only on knowledge of Torah whose ways are truth, without any influence of secular studies.”
Joseph:
So you would do IVF, not like the Chassidish Rebbes who Rav Moshe is railing against?
And second, what does that have to do with GIGO?
GAW-
Please go speak to your Rav/Rebbe for clarification on the concept of Daas Torah – a crucial part of our mesorah. and no, the Torah is not simply Halacha- it is our entire way of life – that’s called being shoel eitzah, which is different then asking for a halachik psak
gavra_at_work:
It appears that you need a work-over in your Emunas Tzadikim. One musmach enough to answer your sha’alos knows how to answer you a lot better than you think. A true godol, one who answers sha’alos as to those you are seeking, has a much broader look than our narrow minds. He stands at a higher plane. He may very well not know the minute intricate details of your business, but he doesn’t need that to be able to guide you.
A moshol was once explained on this matter. There was someone in a forest lost. Surrounded by trees in all directions, he couldn’t find his way out. Nearby there was this guard in a tall tower, who helped direct him out. This sentry did not need to know the surface of the forest, the path etc. He had a broader vision. He merely needed to give direction.
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