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gevalt. ich bin geveyn bai a chassene und de kallah iz geveyn a froi. ze iz gesshtanin inter di chuppah leben der chusen. a shandeh.
just kidding. you can look tsanua in a gorgeous white gown, and you can look very untsanua in the outfit you wear to the supermarket. tsnius should be worked on by all of us, in speech, behavior and dress. and i’m including the men too. is every thing you say and do truly modest?
How does the Chupa work in Eretz Yisroel? A few posters mentioned it is done differently.
Jakyweb- “Next women are not allowed near the gravesite when their loved ones are being buried.”- this is a chassidish minhag. I wasn’t supposed to go to the kevura of my grandfather, a”h but we ended up going anyway, we got special permission to go but not everyone goes because of minhagim, not necessarily tznius reasons.
Pac-man ease up already. The photographs are NOT for you. They are for the chosson and Kallah and for their parents to remember the chasunah by. It is nachas, pure nachas to keep looking at the pictures. Again, if you haven’t been there and experienced it you just don’t understand, I hope one day you will. Please understand that the Good Photographer is also being mesameach choson v’kallah because they and their parents do not get to experience the wedding while there. It whirls by so fast and it is over in a minute. Only through the photos and the video do they really get to experience what happened and who was there. That is when they truly enjoy the wedding.
it is very true that many wear styles that they would not otherwise consider tznius to their weddings. hence, in boro park at least, many chassidish kallahs don a white cape to cover the tight fit of their dress before “mitzvah tance”. i recently heard in a boro park shiur encouragement to girls to pick a tzanuah gown so they wouldn’t need the cape…
why does it have to be an extreme: either burkas/chadors and jokes about gravesites, or tight dress/flashy-makeup-and/or-hair? for those who are just not aruging the point philosophically, why not accept that this is the way we do things and it would be strange for the kallah’s mother not to show up in a gown, etc, and just decide to take the mussar and choose a gown and makeup for our next simcha with more care? why the extreme sarcasm? sounds like defensiveness…
The mothers, and especially the sisters, wearing gowns at the wedding is a relatively new (and unfortunate for the reasons discussed in this thread) phenominon in the frum community.
By certain chassidim and in israel there is no isle the chupa is outside by a door the chossen is walked outside two steps and he is under the chuppa and then the kallah the same
I have a bigger question on tznius here is a very frum boy (for example) who never looked at girls on his holiest day comes out of yichud room stands next to his kallah the doors open and he is standing in front of hundreds of girls and women some of which r scream jumping…even if he doesn’t escort her in or go under the “arch” and is wisked into the men y is this exceptable and it is done by ALL weddings when they r “introducing for the very first time…”
why is the kallah allowed to wear hair that is way longer than she would have on a regular day? what about everything else that she does? I think its ok because she is allowed to be the star of the show on that night but not sure
How does the Chupa work in Eretz Yisroel? A few posters mentioned it is done differently.
I got married in E”Y. In the hall that I got married in, the chuppah was outside with the men on one side of it and the women on the other. After the baddekin the men escorted me outside to the chuppah and packed to one side of it. Then the women came and filled up the other side. My formerly-soon-to-be-wife came down with her mother and mine from between the women. My wife wore a tznius gown and sheitel the whole time. Family wore regular Shabbos clothing, although bought new.
The shape of the hall made it so that when we left the yichud room, we parted ways and I couldn’t have seen how she was greeted by her friends at all.
I’m not chassidish. I’ve been to a couple of chassunahs here over the years. As far as I know, this is how everyone does it here.
In Manhattan they are walking on an isle. The rest of us walk down an aisle.
adorable, what is your hangup with hair? There is nothing wrong with a kallah wearing her hair any way she chooses. If she wants extensions that is her choice, this is the last opportunity she has to wear her own hair in public.
How is wearing her hair in public an “opportunity”? Besides, she would need to cover it after the Chupa anyways. Is that a bad thing or is a married woman covering her hair a loss? That’s what the comment seems to imply.
Derech HaMelech:
That would be the ideal way everyone should do it anywhere.
“here is a very frum boy (for example) who never looked at girls on his holiest day comes out of yichud room stands next to his kallah the doors open and he is standing in front of hundreds of girls and women”
And guess what, this boy who just tied the knot should be man enough to handle the situation; after all, he will be spending a lot of quality time with a woman he’s barely looked at before.
Thanks haifa girl. Pac-man, covering your hair the chupah is a minhag not halacha.
aries: It isn’t just a “minhug”; its halacha.
Pac-Man-You should know that there are different “shitos” regarding covering the hair. Some davka hold that the kalla should have uncovered hair by her chasana (to show that she is a besulah),and that she is not mechuyav to cover her hair until the following morning.
Whatever the shitta, it is not a matter of minhugim. It is a matter of halacha.
Some davka hold that the kalla should have uncovered hair by her chasana (to show that she is a besulah)
Who are the “some” that “hold” of this “shitta”? According to this shitta, she should need to put the covering on under the chuppa as soon as she becomes an eishes ish to “show” she is now an eishes ish and mechuyuv to cover.
too much nitpicking about hair here (no pun intended)
Doesnt a kallah wear white because it is her yom kippur?
Isnt a kallah considered a queen and dont queens wear gowns?
Isnt a kallah covered from head to toe when she walks down the aisle?
Maybe the OP should have read: why is there a wedding if the whole point of a wedding is that a man and woman are becoming one unit to build a bayis ne’eman? Isnt this a very private mitzvah?
I am quoting from the sefer “Halichas Bas Yisroel”- “In some communities,it is customary for brides to cover their hair before the wedding ceremony to ensure that it will be covered at the moment of marriage.Elsewhere,brides cover their hair after yichud.Still others wait until the following day to cover their hair.”There are 3 footnotes in the sefer that bring down exactly where each shitta comes from,and they are all valid,major poskim.Feel free to look it up.
my wife wore a burqa, i still have no isea what she looks like.
mikehall: you probably don’t want to know.
The gemara Ksubos says that a besula goes to the chupa with her hair uncovered. This is how they can prove she deserves the full 200 kesuba, should the need arise.
my wife wore a burqa, i still have no isea what she looks like.
You joke, but we have such a poster who advocated just that — that a husband should not know what his wife looks like.
An important lesson from last weeks parsha for married people
The Wolf
I’m not chassidish. I’ve been to a couple of chassunahs here over the years. As far as I know, this is how everyone does it here.
Which I find a bit sad – I truly looked forward to walking my daughters to their chupah when the time comes.
I find Derech HaMelech’s description beautiful.
“You joke, but we have such a poster who advocated just that — that a husband should not know what his wife looks like.”
sadly, I know
Pac-Man, I don’t know how old you are or what you have experienced but your knowledge is lacking. IT is NOT halacha by any means. If it were then the likes of the greatest Rabbonim such as Reb Moshe Feinstein, Rav Avrohom Pam, Reb Yaakov, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, etc. would insist that this “halacha” be followed or they would not be mesader kedushin for the couple. OK is that enough for you? It is a minhag/custom/shita whatever you want to call it according to where you come from, which group you belong to etc.
Many of us “married” women here on the CR did NOT cover our hair till the next morning according to our own customs and guidance from our own Rabbonim.
Well said, there seems to a problem confusing Halacha and minhags
A shitta is not a minhug. It is a psak halacha. So if a shitta is something is assur, even if there is another shitta that holds it isn’t assur, a person would not be wrong to state that it is assur.
I’m not sure I understand the terminology “it is customary in some communities”, customary meaning, this is how we do it, because this is how we feel it is supposed to be done according to halacha OR, this is not halachicly required, however it is customary in some communities to do it anyway.
shlishi
hate to make it seem like I’m doing a multi-thread attack but…
making a blanket statement like “it is assur” is misleading if it is not universally accepted by torah authorities as bottom line halacha, and not qualified as such.
Saying there is a ma’an di’amar that says it’s assur is a more accurate, honest way to present one’s point.
Otherwise, if it’s not in the S”A, and not universally accepted, it is a chumra. All over rishonim and achronim it discusses being “machmir for the daas yachid”. Machmir. from the same word as chumra. Meaning not required.
yid: We are referring to the situation of someone being meikel for a daas yochid. Just because there is a shitta out there somewhere that something is muttar (you can probably find a kula on anything if you look hard enough), doesn’t invalidate the statement that something is assur based on psak halacha that it is assur.
That’s not what you said. you said “if a shitta is something is assur, even if there is another shitta that holds it isn’t assur, a person would not be wrong to state that it is assur.”
A “shitta” means (at least) one person. You say we are discussing where there is only one meikil man diamar… I don’t know where you got that from. It seems, at least from that post, like you are saying we the daas yachid we are sometimes machmir for is the halacha. Which isn’t true.
The person who quoted “halichos bas yisroel”, can you tell us the footnoted source for the various opinions?
my husband’s posek advised him not to have a full yichud–to have someone knock and walk in every few minutes…and my brother’s posek said that as long as his kallah was in her wedding gown she did not have to cover. but we’re sephardic-maybe its different?
I have long been amazed that we even have women at weddings at all. After all, she doesn’t really need to be there. K’ddushin can be done via a sh’liach. Nisuin requires no more than two witnesses and doesn’t need to involve any more than a car trip from her parents’ home to the chosson’s home.”
It sure would save on the catering costs.
In regards to Canine who asserts that it is only recently that the mothers and sisters have taken to wearing gowns – what century were you born in? Gowns have ALWAYS been worn by the mothers, grandmothers, sisters, and bridal party members (and most of the female guests as well, until recent years). When I was going to my friends’ weddings over thirty years ago, ALL the women attending were in fancy gowns.
oomis: all female guests at weddings wore gowns until recent years???? Not by frum weddings. Isn’t that how it works by goyim, were the female guests generally wear gown to a wedding or even a party like a “ball”? That’s were that idea comes from. But I don’t think that yiddisha weddings EVER had most female guests donning gowns. That would be pretty untzniusdik. Maybe in modern weddings its done differently. But I think the idea of mothers and sisters wearing a gown is an offshoot of that. I remember when the ONLY person wearing a gown at frum weddings was the Kallah.
hate to make it seem like I’m doing a multi-thread attack but…
making a blanket statement like “it is assur” is misleading if it is not universally accepted by torah authorities as bottom line halacha, and not qualified as such.
Saying there is a ma’an di’amar that says it’s assur is a more accurate, honest way to present one’s point.
Otherwise, if it’s not in the S”A, and not universally accepted, it is a chumra. All over rishonim and achronim it discusses being “machmir for the daas yachid”. Machmir. from the same word as chumra. Meaning not required.
Like this. We have gedorim of P’sak which are transmitted from the previous generations. Blanket statements are for those who don’t know how to Pasken.
All over rishonim and achronim it discusses being “machmir for the daas yachid”.
They call in Yuhara, or Ga’ava in most cases.
I have mostly been to frum weddings, with only three weddings in my life that were for non-observant relatives. I started attending weddings as a young adult in the early 1970s. ALL the women wore gowns. What you and I call a gown might differ, but any ankle/floor length dressy occasion dress is a gown. If it is a shorter length dressy dress, it is called a cocktail dress (stupid name). My Bubby, who was as tsniusdig a rebbetzin as they come, wore a floor length navy blue gown to my parents’ wedding, a VERY long time ago. Some were more shtotty-looking, and some were simpler fabric. They were all gowns. Maybe we have a semantic issue here.
Really, shlishi, how old are you that you remember only the Kallah wearing a gown? When I was a kid I wore a gown to my cousin’s wedding and so did my mom and her sisters who were aunts, so did the sister of the bride and the sister of the Chosson as well as both mothers. That was 45 years ago. And that was an extremely yeshivish wedding. As a matter of fact that chosson is still sitting and learning till this day. A father of 15 and a grandfather of…………………
gavra,
i have no idea whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me… can you explain please? When you said “like this” were you saying I was being hypocritical?
What’s “They call in Yuhara, or Ga’ava in most cases.” sorry I’m not familiar…
oomis: Yeshivish or Modern? There perhaps lies the different perceptions. But I don’t think anyone is mistaking gowns for dresses. At least by frum non-mo weddings there used to be no gowns on anyone but the Kallah.
oomis & aries~ I do believe I’m the oldest female CR poster here. I’m just sayin’…
waaahhhh 😉
yid.period: Agree.
Yuharu/Ga’aava is what it is called in Halacha when you show yourself to be Machmir like a Da’as Yochid without being on the level of doing so, like wearing Rabbanu Tam Tefilin without being a “chosid”.
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