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i don’t understand this new style of dress why is this kosher?? we look like basketball players with a shell under ! it really brought down the level of tznios and everyone is wearing it?? i don’t get it???
What’s the issue here?
If you think something is untznius speak to your local rebbetzin to make sure it really is and then if you have the guts, tell those dressed this way that it is untznius.
They look like underwear. Especially the white tanks.
“i don’t understand this new style of dress why is this kosher??”
Why is it “unkosher”?
“we look like basketball players with a shell under!”
And people who only wear black and white look like penguins, waiters and undertakers. Not everyone has the same sense of style.
“it really brought down the level of tznios”
How?
“and everyone is wearing it??”
Now that I know what UGGS are (more like UGHS), I say the same thing about people who wear UGGS, I dont call them dressing untznius tough.
“i don’t get it???”
Me neither.
Actually shells are great! You can buy any clothing anywhere and still look great!
looking like a basketball player may not be pretty, and it may not be elegant or classy, but it sure isn’t provocative either.
honestly.
the biggest problem is that the shells themselves are more often than not too tight.
Most of them are tight. They show the figure all right. Now there’s no denying that.
“Actually shells are great! You can buy any clothing anywhere and still look great! “
that’s exactly the problem!!! the styles are meant to bring attention to those exact parts that are meant to be concealed and hidden, not shown off.
Its absolutely dispicable the way girls prance around in the same things the goyim wear (tank tops, strapless dresses, mini dresses, backless dresses…) and think that since they put a skimpy tight shell underneath (or a pencil skirt under the mini dresses) it makes it kosher. HELLO- wake up- it looks sickening! where is your jewish pride???
Tight shell is a different problem from tank top on shell.
I don’t wear either.
Sjs- MOST of them are tight. A tank is made out of very thin material and is almost impossible for it not to be clinky and fitted.
I have yet to see a loose fitting one.
Besides tznius, they do look very “prust”.
Most of the kids (or slimmer older women) wearing the shell under sleevelss/cap sleeve top look fine. The outer level is usually a looser T shirt material.
deliberately_esoteric:
you are missing one of the main points of tznius – that a bas yisroel must look as refined as ppossible. tznius is not all about NOT looking a cetain way; it’s a large part about YES looking a certain way – refined and respectable. and i’m last i checked, basketball players are anything but respectable and refined, abd along with them, any similar style of dress.
She sells sea shells down by the seahore.
I’m not sure how a Shell can cover everthing required. Even if there are strings of shells, there will still be spots where the shells do not overlay and skin will show.
That must be the point of the OP.
(purposefully obtuse)
Tzippy-slimmer woman do not look fine if they wear fitted clothing. In fact, they look worse because they usually have better figures.
What I find funny, is this “shell under a t-shirt” look has been worn in the modern orthodox (think: Stern College girls) for years, and now I see this on my wife’s friends who are TEACHERS in Bklyn Bais Yaakovs. And, its everywhere you look in BP.. even on the girls who wear # 70s / women with covered shaitels.
Good morning, frumsters of America! You’ve just been upgraded to MO!
Smart Cookie, my point was, that while the shells are form fitting (the main function seems to be not be wearing baggy sleeves) the overlay is loose enough that I don’t see it as a tznius issue. It’s not just there are greater issues, but this is one that isn’t an issue. To me, it’s not the style per se, it’s the particular top one chooses to wear.
And yes, by and large the only older women I see wearing them are the slimmer women, who tend to dress trendier, but again they lok fine too.
Yeah! and what about the girls who not only where these clothing, but also ride on rollerblades, and the new type of skate board. that’s really rediculous
Just my 2 cents- there is s/t called halacha and there is s/t called “in the spirit of the law”. A tank top with a shell underneath, might be halachically tzniyus- meaning if it covers e/t and is not too tight…but for some reason it doesn’t have a tzniyus look. Its the same thing with ultra long skirts- it covers e/t, yet when it is worn it doen’t have that tzniyus look. So i don’t think its halachaically not OK. Though i am in no way advocating it.
We’ll I think that as long as the shirt is not too fitted then there’s no problem because there’s no problem with tight fitted sleeves- elbows must be covered but there’s no issur there if it’s tight. That’s why we don’t where “baggy” tights- It goes in the same category…
aqua, of course there is a problem if the sleeves (upper arm or elbow) is tight.
tight fitted sleeves are not tznius.
aqua- in regards to “baggy tights”- halacha is that your knees have to be covered so obviously anything below that is fine so wearing fitted tights is fine.
“rollerblades, and the new type of skate board”
Its called a rip stick. And could you tell me what is wrong with rollerblades?
As it happens, rollerblading is one of 3 questions I plan on asking the shadchan (1st is the paper / plastic situation and #2 is the animal.)
OK, I’m kidding about question 1 and 2.. but rollerblading is a real question. Not to say a fine suggestion that has never ‘bladed is out of the running.. as long as she’s willing to learn how 🙂
The postion is very not eidel, in order to keep her balance
Perhaps. But good posture / proper balance is a vital part of childbearing, so all is forgiven (but that’s still not my reason for being a rollerblade advocate)
but for some reason it doesn’t have a tzniyus look”
That is your opinion (to which you are entitled). Other people might have a different opinion.
a shell which is tight, with the sleeves on the elbow and above tight and showing the figure is not just a non-tznius look (it is that too), but actual pritzus.
btw, those belts around the waist also result in a pritzus tight fit of the upper body.
I’m with BP Totty. What’s wrong with rollerblading? I would ask what’s wrong with bikeriding too but I think that’s pushing it in the CR.
Since you mentioned it, bikeriding is not as practial (skirt are a real challenge) so that’s why its not as common among teens / adults. But rollerblading is no different than ice skating, and should be encouraged
I usually wear long skirts bikeriding – you are right about the challenge thought. Skirts getting stuck in the chain are not fun.
dunno,
Skirts getting stuck in the chain are LIFE THREATENING! My wife’s rabbi ok’d her wearing a short skirt over long tight pants or leggings while bicycling. PIKUACH NEFESH TRUMPS TZNIUT!
PIKUACH NEFESH TRUMPS TZNIUT!
its not pikuach nefesh when it is very easy to avoid, ie not riding the bike, if it involves a lack of tznius.
note im not commenting on your Rabbis psak, just on the particular comment you made.
I would love to go bike riding, but, haven’t done so since I got married many years ago. I don’t think it would portray me as a tsniudik woman if I rode around on a bike (maybe in a secluded area, if one can be found, I would still ride a bike). There are some things that one just has to forgo if you want to do Avodas Hashem in the proper way. As for shells over T shirts, I think if they are figure revealing, they just aren’t proper. Who started this style anyway? Was it someone Jewish or is it coming from the goyim? What’s wrong if we Jewish women and girls proudly wear our own style of tsniusdik clothing, made with a modest look, not eye catching and figure revealing? I think one can look quite nice in looser clothing.
P.S. As far as leggings under skirts, if a skirt is long enough by itself and one is wearing stockings besides (not bare foot) then if her legs don’t stick out so no sees you’re wearing them, it shouldn’t be wrong to wear them. But, if one is wearing them to cover her legs if they stick out from under her skirts (I am talking about the part of the leg that is supposed to be covered according to Halacha), I think that’s wrong, because they are tight and reveal the shape of the legs. Go ask your Rov (a frum one)
truly a BasMelech.
it brings me a great Simcha to hear the Torahs Emes spoken in a place where sadly so many have been separated from it, by living among the goyim
I don’t think it would portray me as a tsniudik woman
Not that I disagree, but why not?
(I really don’t know the answer).
It’s really heartwarming to see how many of us not only care about the way we dress, but also how others dress. Mi K’amcha Yisroel.
I’ve found all this very interesting. I personally am very offended walking in the streets of the frumest neighborhoods in Brooklyn. The woman today think their attire is nice??? I feel like I see women in their night attire!!! How can you not be embarrassed to walk around like this??? I think it comes from a lack of knowledge. If each and everyone of you would only realize all the dangers this brings to Klal Yisroel??? We are supposed to walk around feeling royal not like the trash on the street?? We are not like the Goyim and shouldn’t want to emulate their ways in ANY WAY!!! A Git Gebenched Yur to each and every one of you!!
To summarize every discussion regarding strict halacha vs. the “sprirt of the law” a.k.a SENSITIVITY:
We are in golus, the goiyim severely effected our clarity and desensitized us.
It is so so sad reading this thread and all the others relating to it… I just sit here shaking my head… some people just don’t get it- the Torah is not just a book of rules!!!!
Oiy- and we think we can hasten the geulah with our extra zchusim???
please visit more often areivim
I’ve never ridden a bike in a skirt. Since I wear tefillin daily, that would be a problematic outcome.
When I was younger, I remember girls would go horseback riding by wearing denim jeans (which prevent the horsehairs from needling you) beneath a skirt (which flowed over the saddle and side of the horse; hence, the pants were visible only at the bottom edges).
Would such an eitza work for a bicycle, or does anything but a short skirt get caught in a chain?
Telegrok, do you and your wife share the same YW account. I thought your wife once posted how she met you (at some singles function).
thank you mod80-
One common thread I keep noticing is that most things brought up on here are sensitivities and not halacha, and sensitivities with a question mark. And then all the readers get so heated talking in such emphatic (sp?) tones making it sound like halacha and worse. All I can say is, that if everyone is so makpid on the things that REALLY matter, that are truly halacha instead of getting so tzehitzed about the small things then yea, maybe moshiach will come.
And dont forget the Satan works like this too, making you focus on the little things so you should be distracted, so you shouldnt focus on the bigger more important picture at large.
(I doubt my post will be published, the moderator seems to block all my other posts)
Pashuteh Yid-
I know a few families where the wife/ mother wears the tefillin of the house.
sacrilege: most things here are absolute halacha. wearing a tight shell is pritzus. that is a halachic violation, not just a sensitivity. riding a bike, whereas the leg shows while riding, is a halachic violation.
Pashuteh Yid, yes, we share an account – she “won” me a shul fund-raiser auction – actually, she won tickets that included me as the date – it is I who emerged the ultimate winner in that deal –
Funny – how many of us would now shun a shul that would host an event that would endeavor to bring single girls and boys together in the same room for the purpose of socializing and meeting each other? Times change, don’t they
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