We, Yidden: G-d’s Chosen People!!

What’s the chiddush?

Should be above chosen. The Torah Shebeksav is the goldmine and the Torah Shebaal Peh is the act of goldmining.

Before we get uneducated or miseducated posters claim otherwise, it’s nice to see a post that’s not controversial, political or agenda-driven. Asher bachar banu mikol ho’amin. Am segulah. Bn’i bechori yisroel. Yisroel asher b”cha espa’ar. The entire shir hashirim.

The drive for imagined equality makes some Jews uncomfortable with the idea, but like anything else, when you learn something deeply, beneath the surface, you uncover the truth.

Ask yourself, Jews who are enamored with civil rights and who can list more senator names than dafim in gemara – besides the visceral knee jerk response to the idea of exclusivity and superiority, what is it that makes such ideas evil? Is it not the resultant tyranny and oppression that goyim have shown, chiefly to us ourselves, in its wake?

Have Jews, even when given the chance, ever been tyrannical and oppressive? The only ones among us that have oppressed anyone have been the Zionists. They have tried and are pushing with all of their might to oppress Torah. Palestinians are murderous, but one must wonder what their temperament would be if the government had listened to the gedolei yisroel and given back most of the post-67″ land..there definitely were instances where the zionists were brutal to the palestinians; one need not be from the fanatical branches of neturei karta or Peace Now to say this.

This is coming from the “enlightened” Jews who support the civil rights of members of the to’eva community, yet seek to oppress whoever they don’t like.

The peace loving, true Jewish “supremacists” have never and will never oppress anyone.

The Dubner Magid has a mashel on this on the Haggada where the rasha asks mo haavoda hazos lochem, what is the pupose of your actions? So we weaken his teeth and we don”t explain but tell him not to do it. A man was poor having only enough money for yom tov. He sees a beatiful suit, forgetting that he has no money for it. When buying, he takes it home. As his wife sees it, she tells him to take it back. He tells the salesman to return his money as there is a fault in it. He gives him his money back. Why did you not exchange it, ask the people around the salesman. He answers them that the man is poor and he wants to reneg on the sale and this is just an excuse. Similarly, this is an excuse for the rasha and the goyim having charata on tne whole sale.

Avi,

What does it matter how it’s said, look at the message and don’t divide us into sfardi ashkenazi chassidish….

Remember it’s the three weeks

CA, I was being sarcastic.

Avira,
1. And Yiddish doesn’t have kefira? The biggest kofrim were the Yiddishist Bundists. It also has improper words.
2. Rav Moshe (Iggerot Moshe Even Haezer 3:35 based on the Sifri (Devarim Piska 46) which is quoted by Rashi on the verse of ledabber bam (Devarim 11:19) says that it is a mitzva to speak in Lashon HaKodesh. In fact, this is one of the merits our ancestors had in Egypt.
3. Who says that baalei teshuvah are drawn to the “warmth” of Yiddish in a shiur? Perhaps they just find it cute and quaint. Like an old family heirloom that one keeps in the closet and dusts off once in a while. Not to mention the fact that it is very annoying and difficult to try to follow a shiur when one does not understand the language. This is why both Rav Soloveichik and Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky changed the language of instruction to English. BTW, in English “Yid” is a pejorative.

Avi, I was referring to the progenitors of the two languages. Yiddish was born from Torah life and has many, many expressions that are based on Torah and chazal. The fact that people came later and abrogated it, and poisoned it with foul things does not affect the yiddish that we have today and that is spoken by frum “yidden”.

Hebrew, by contrast, was designed for the specific purpose of “reviving” judaism to be zionism, a culture with a land, language, etc…it was created from infancy with a disdain of Torah.

As per your quotes from Rav Moshe – Rav moshe himself, did not speak lashon kodesh. Neither did virtually any of the rishonim, achronim, or amoraim!! He calls it a “ma’aleh”, and he says that chasidei elyon did not take upon themselves this maaleh. To think that we are above them is hubris and the height of arrogance.

Also, it’s a moot point because… Again, eretz yisroel does NOT equal the state of Israel, and modern hebrew does NOT equal lashon kodesh. Tell me, when the “people of ill repute” talk to customers in Hebrew, is that better or worse than if they were speaking in Arabic? What about gangsters and robbers? Also, the rambams definition of what makes Hebrew holy does NOT apply to modern Hebrew in the slightest, even if it were purely based on lashon kodesh, which it isn’t.

coffes addict, we were forced to accept the Torah Shebaal Peh according to the Midrash Tanchuma in Parashas Noach as Torah Shebeksav without Torah Shebaal Peh is not possible.

By a goy forcing is not an option. See Tosfas Kidushin 39,1 beginning with machshava on the bottom of the page.

Avira,
1. How do you define Lashon haKodesh? As for Rambam’s definition, in fact, improper words some Israelis use are Arabic and English.
2. If many people speak it is is not hubris.
3. What about all the Yiddish-speaking gangsters? They even translated “Cosa nostra” into “Unzer zach”. For that matter, as I posted, Yiddish was the banner of the fiercely anti-religious Bundists. After the Bolsheviks took over Hebrew was banned and “counter-revolutionary” but Yiddish schools, newspapers, and theaters were set up for Jews.
4. The State of Israel is the polity of Eretz Yisrael. When David fled to Gatt he said that he was expelled from Hashem’s inheritance (Shmuel Alef 26:19).

RE, If they are acting on behalf of the bet din the gett is kosher Rambam, Hilchot Gerushin 2:20, SA EH 134:20).

Avi K,

“Do Sepharadim and Eidot haMizrach count as “Yidden”.”

Yidden is just Yiddish for Jews, so why wouldn’t they count?

“Enough with the creole German. Say it. Am Yisrael.”

Would you have said, “enough with the English!” had he written Jews? Or would you have called Ladino creole Spanish? No. We’ve had this discussion before. You feel oppressed by Ashkenazim and Yiddish, and have been wronged. But two wrongs do not make a right. Yiddish is a big part of the culture of many of your fellow Jews, and the push in Israel to squash that culture in favor of Ivrit and falafel has a strong association with efforts to secularize Jews as well. So is it surprising that there may be some resistance among frum Ashkenazim?

Avi K, forcing on their sheva mitzvos will not work as Tosfas above explains that by a goy a good thought is not considered a mitzva. The Meharshah explains that by a goy thinking good will not necessarily lead to action but bad does whereas by a Jew the reverse is true.

Neither AAQ or Avi have answered my assertions that Hebrew was created with the intent specifically to undermine Torah, or how there is tumah inherently in the language.

The point about Yiddish reshoim, whih includes more than your list (think shalom aleichem and his vile ilk) but it is irrelevant to my point about the roots and structure of the yiddish spoken by frum jews. That is pure and torah-dig, to use a yiddish expression.

I’m not even going to address the purely secular objections to the “ghetto” diatribe. We all know where that will go. I’m a callow “mah yofis” jew and you are a tough “new hebrew” complete with an Uzi, so we’ll leave it at that.

That being said, once the directive from the majority of the gedolei hador was given not to oppose Hebrew (the chazon ish actually said, to AAQ’s point, that a major reason not to oppose hebrew was that if we did, the masses of mostly uneducated and disenfranchised sefardi immigrants would be lost from Torah and swept up in Zionism)

Hebrew is hardly a “uniting” language when its inception caused a massive schism between those who spoke it, and integrated into its ensuing culture, and those who initially opposed it vociferously.

Lashon kodesh is described in the seforim as the language of the Torah. The ramban explains that many goyim spoke semitic languages; hebrew words are found in Tyre, Moav(its name!) And many surrounding countries. Canaanim undoubtedly spoke it, as it was called “ivri” because it was spoken on the “other” side of the Jordan. The ivri spoken by those canaanim was probably closer to the lashon hatorah than today’s modern hebrew.

The state is only a political “wing” of eretz yisroel to those who accept its legitimacy. I am a Jew and have lived in eretz yisroel. The state has not and will not represent me politically. I am not represented by the murder of unborn babies, autopsies, politicians who proclaim “charedim to the ovens”, warmongering leaders who are out for blood, massive institutional chillul shabbos, an army that is a makom znus, toe’va rights celebrations, the brainwashing of tenss and thousands of ignorami to be secular, the kidnapping of immigrant babies, complicity with nazis in saving the secular (“a cow in Palestine js worth more than all the Jews in europe”), anti semitic canards of big nosed charedim leeching the system…

To name a few. Israel is not jewish, despite whatever bones they throw the naive religious zionists to make them think that they’re lro-judaism. A few laws here and there loosely based on halacha while referring to turkish common law as its true bread and butter, misappropriating money from jews one to another as gezel….i can go on and on, but I’ll refer you to “the empty wagon” by rabbi yaakov shapiro for further evidence of the evils of zionism, its campaign to conflate itselt with judaism, and the consequences of the acceptance of that agency that has befallen us as a people.

Avira, whether you like it or not the state represents you. If c’v you will be assaulted it will be as a Zionist. True, there have been bad leaders (although they too have been complex), but they are not the state, Louis XIV notwithstanding.

The statement that Modern Hebrew was created to undermine Torah does not deserve an answer. In fact, for all his faults Ben-Yehuda went to Rav Kook (who, after he made aliya, did not like being addressed in Yiddish, which he called Jargon) with questions about words found in the Talmud.

Avram, why speak a useless, moribund language? One might as well learn German (BTW, your German grandfather would probably disown you if he heard you say he spoke Yiddish – Agnon wrote a cute story about that), which is an important world language. As for kneidlach, I only eat them on Pesach.

The fact that yiddish was weaponized to negate the Judaism of non yiddish speakers is completely irrelevant, since once again, the language was built on torah, for the sake of torah jewry. You keep attacking the way it was used by bad people to do bad things. Yiddishists used yiddish the same way Zionists use hebrew – they wanted to make a Jewish language devoid of Torah.

Ben Yehudah wrote openly, along with all the “safrut” writers that their goal was to recreate a Jewish culture apart from religion. Zionism sought to create a new jew based on social constructs and the same nationalism that gave rise to Nazism.

“Doesn’t deserve an answer” – read “the empty wagon” for wagon loads of quotes from the progenitors of modern Hebrew. Their goal was to undermine torah.

Rabbi kook calling Yiddish a jargon (which is not really pejorative) ranks pretty low on the list of aberrations and issues that he had. The fact that he associated with murderers like ben gurion or other reshoim like ben yehuda was one of the bigger problems, precisely for the reason that it gives authenticity to such enemies of hashem.

Yiddish is far from useless. It is the language that torah was passed down with for a thousand years. It is similar to how the gemara says not to take Aramaic lightly, even though it is a non Jewish language.

When I learn, there are gemara ideas that i can’t explain in English or lashon kodesh; try saying “rashi firs ois” in Hebrew or English, or “bavorn” – there are terms that are part of the fabric of learning that are exclusive to yiddish. I’m sure ladino and other judaic languages had the same.

Your personal feelings are completely clouding your judgement. What would you tell someone who hates Hebrew because their parents verbally abused them in Hebrew? You’d say to suck it up and see the supposed objective truth…..

I’m genuinely offended at the suggestion that a torah language that my ancestors used is useless.

AAQ – I spoke Hebrew when I lived in eretz yisroel. The majority of charedim also do. I never said not to; what I said was that there is
nothing good about hebrew and that a statement that we should drop Yiddish in favor of a language made by and for heretics for the purpose of eradicating Torah r”l is a horrible corruption. I was also responding to the assertion that somehow modern Hebrew is lashon kodesh. I also was explaining the advantages of speaking yiddish and its pure character.

57, the Maasei Hashem says that is tbe meaning of Avraham Avinu being shown the stars to be a beacon to all the nations like the stars throgh the Torsh;

Should be above 5T like the stars through the Torah.

Avi K: When I was in high school in Mirrer Yeshiva, I was taught that Loshen Kodesh was the true language of Torah and Ivrit was the language of non-frum Jews and shouldn’t be spoken.

Yosef said that pi hamedaber aleichem, belashan hakadash indicates my sanctity which I have not lost.
Yaakav Avinu said Galed and Lavan said Yegar Sahadusa in Aramaic.

The Jews are compared also to the moon that gets larger and than smaller. When the Jews do the will Hashem, they are like the stars but when not, they are like dust. Sometimes they are in between like kahochal hayom.