Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › washing netilas yadayim on shabbos
- This topic has 40 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 4 months ago by Sam2.
-
AuthorPosts
-
December 11, 2012 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #607370mik5Participant
Is it a problem of laundering if you get your sleeves a little wet when washing your hands on Shabbos?
December 11, 2012 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1088714WolfishMusingsParticipantYes. Yes, it is.
As a result, everyone should cover themselves completely in plastic bags (except for their hands, of course) before washing.
The Wolf
December 11, 2012 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #1088715popa_bar_abbaParticipantA big problem. This is why machmirim wash before shabbos and keep their hands inside gloves the entire shabbos, and don’t sleep at all so that they don’t have to wash negel vasser, and stay in the north pole during the summer and south pole during the winter so that it won’t be nightime and they won’t have to wash negel vasser.
oy, shver tzu zein a yid.
December 11, 2012 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1088716WolfishMusingsParticipantIn all seriousness, if you’re really worried about it, just roll up your sleeves a bit.
The Wolf
December 11, 2012 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #1088717popa_bar_abbaParticipantIn all seriousness, if you’re worried about it, speak to your therapist.
December 12, 2012 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1088718R.T.Participant“…speak to your therapist”
Make sure he is not wearing linen (code word for denim).
June 18, 2015 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1088719mik5ParticipantIs it a problem to get a clean garment wet [on Shabbos]?
Even though you are not getting the garment wet in order to clean it, it is still ???? [laundering, which is forbidden].
According to the ????? of ???? one is forbidden to get any absorbent material wet on Shabbos, because that is the first step in the laundering process. Therefore, one should be careful when washing one’s own hands or a child’s hands for ????? ???? or before the ?????? [negel vasser, or washing before a bread meal] that sleeves should not get wet.
June 18, 2015 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1088720rewMemberThis thread started 2 YRS ago. What happened during these 2 yrs? Did any sleeves get wet?
Seriously, Why is it so hard to pull the sleeves up a bit?
Additionally, it can be ????? .
June 18, 2015 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #1088721lesschumrasParticipantThen don’t go go shul when it’s raining
June 18, 2015 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1088722👑RebYidd23ParticipantWhat about rain?
June 18, 2015 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #1088723Sam2ParticipantAino Miskaven V’lo Nicha Lei
June 18, 2015 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1088724mik5ParticipantRain is diffferent.
He is not doing an action with his own hands (the rain falls from the sky on its own, as opposed to me pouring water on my clothing).
With rain – The wetting of his clothing is against his will; he doesn’t want it to happen, and would prefer that it not happen.
The rain soils his clothing, as opposed to improving them.
It is impossible to avoid the rain.
Interestingly, the poskim discuss why it’s not a problem of carrying if one’s clothes get wet in the rain.
June 19, 2015 12:15 am at 12:15 am #1088725👑RebYidd23ParticipantBut when you open or close the door in the rain, you are with your own hands causing the water collected on the door to fall off.
June 19, 2015 2:55 am at 2:55 am #1088726yehudayonaParticipantWith getting your sleeves wet when washing, you’re also wetting your clothing against your will.
June 19, 2015 5:44 am at 5:44 am #1088727Mashiach AgentMemberrew
the difference between now & last generation is that today we are living in the generation of instant-gratification & self-centeredness, where everything is ME ME & ONLY ME & we are too lazy to role up our sleeves to wash even if it means our clothing will get wet & even if its against halacha R”L could you believe we have reached such a low level & THIS IS ALL WHILE BEING FRUM YIDDEN.
June 19, 2015 6:20 am at 6:20 am #1088728old manParticipantDespite the fact that one of the poskei hador has forbidden short sleeved shirts (which solves this pseudohalachic issue), I have full confidence that the lamdanim here can find a way to forbid rolling up sleeves on shabbos . Seeing that this leaves us shirtless rl”z, someone will then invent “the Shabbos Sleeve”, which will be wildly popular among the yeshivishers, until that too will be looked upon as too modern. And so on….
June 19, 2015 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1088729HaLeiViParticipantYou mean you don’t yet have the Gramma Sink™!?
June 19, 2015 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #1088730mik5Participant“But when you open or close the door in the rain, you are with your own hands causing the water collected on the door to fall off.”
On the doorknob? The doorknob is a makom pattur, so it’s OK.
“With getting your sleeves wet when washing, you’re also wetting your clothing against your will.”
According to some poskim, it is forbidden, on Shabbos and yom tov, to cause even a clean garment to become wet. Even a clean garment is improved with additional laundering – and wetting a garment is considering the first step in the laundering process. I already explained the numerous differences between this and walking in the rain.
As far as sleeves are concerned, some poskim say that going out in rolled-up sleeves is considered carrying (if he would prefer that the rolled-up material not be there; the rolled-up material is not actually covering his body or serving any other function – therefore, it is a burden and you are transgressing the prohibition of carrying in a public domain on the holy Sabbath. Rav Moshe zatzal held like this.
June 19, 2015 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1088731👑RebYidd23ParticipantNot the doorknob. The entire outside of the door, and after the door is open for a second it also collects water on the top.
June 19, 2015 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #1088732ItcheSrulikMemberSam2: some people like to read the drasha backwards — ????? ??? ??? ??? ???. Don’t ruin their fun.
June 19, 2015 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1088733☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantAino Miskaven V’lo Nicha Lei
That would still be a problem if a ???? ????.
??? ?????, though.
Hey, ItcheSrulik, nice to see you.
June 19, 2015 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1088735Sam2ParticipantDY: No. No Licha Lei only comes into play if it’s a Psik Reisha. This is going to be Muttar as a Psik Reisha D’lo Nicha Lei. If it’s not a Psik Reisha there’s no question that it’s Muttar.
June 19, 2015 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #1088736☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantSam, correct that ???? ?????? is okay, but ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? is a ?????? ???????, and we are ?????.
??’ ???? ????? ??”? ?”? ?”? ??? ??”? ????? ??? ???”? ????”?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14171&st=&pgnum=241
June 21, 2015 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1088737Sam2ParticipantDY: No because this is only D’rabannan so PRDLN”L on a D’rabannan will be okay according to everyone, no?
June 21, 2015 1:56 am at 1:56 am #1088738☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantNo. That’s talking about a d’rabbonon, and it’s still assur (some are mattir because of an additional factor which doesn’t seem relevant to our case). Take a look; I linked it.
(In my earlier post, I neglected to say that those poskim who asser are in addition to the Rema.)
June 21, 2015 4:41 am at 4:41 am #1088739E-O-MParticipantIf wetting a fabric is assur- how about drying hands on a towel?
June 21, 2015 5:13 am at 5:13 am #1088740☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantIf wetting a fabric is assur- how about drying hands on a towel?
That’s muttar. If you want to be machmir, you can first shake off the excess water from your hands, but the minhag is to be meikil.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14171&st=&pgnum=179
June 21, 2015 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1088742mik5ParticipantFrom Limud Torah Web site: The Maharam did not wipe his hands on a towel until he removed most of the water from them by vigorously flaying his hands. He was worried that an excess of water would result with transgressing the Issur of laundering the towel on Shabbos. The Mechaber concludes that it is a good thing to keep this Chumra. The Rama says there is no reason to keep it, for even if there is some excess water which gets on the towel, it is only done in a manner which will make the towel dirtier.
The Magen Avraham says that the reason why the Mechaber holds this to be a Chumra, is since there is no dirt on the towel, soaking it is not considered laundering. The Tosfos Shabbos asks why in Simon 319 the Mechaber seems to hold that someone must be careful M’Iker Hadin not to soak something even when it does not have dirt on it. So we must conclude the Mechaber holds according to the reasoning of the Rama here, and considers wiping one’s hands on a towel to be dirtying the towel.
June 21, 2015 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1088743mik5ParticipantFor more information, see 39 Melachos by Rabbi Dovid Ribiat shlita, p. 728.
June 21, 2015 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #1088744takahmamashParticipantDespite the fact that one of the poskei hador has forbidden short sleeved shirts . . .
Really? Who? I missed this one! Suppose a boy is in shidduchim and wears short sleeved shirts – is this worse than using a non-white table cloth on Shabbat?
June 22, 2015 2:13 am at 2:13 am #1088745147ParticipantIs it a problem of laundering if you get your sleeves a little wet So miserably uncomfortable to have a wet sleeve, so if this is not meeting criteria of “Lo Niche Leh {this is not his wish}” then what would ever qualify for definition of an action being off the hook because of “Lo Niche Leh”?
June 25, 2015 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #1088746mik5Participant147: Walking in the rain is OK, so you’re off the hook there.
By getting the sleeve wet (when washing your hands), the fabric is improved by being laundered, so that is questionable (if it’s OK).
It doesn’t go by what’s “uncomfortable.” Getting your teeth pulled may be uncomfortable, and against your wishes, but it’s not allowed because of gozez.
Drawing blood may be uncomfortable and against your wishes, but it’s not allowed on Shabbos.
June 25, 2015 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1088747ExcellenceParticipantForbidden short sleeved shirts?
Guess they’ve never cooked food by a hotplate in summer for customers before without fan or air con! As a kashrut mashgiach I most definitely wear short sleeves in a hot kitchen.
June 25, 2015 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1088748mik5ParticipantI am almost certain that Rav Moshe zt”l wore short-sleeved shirts.
But, then again, some forbid men from wearing wristwatches (this is a Chazon Ish thing).
June 25, 2015 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #1088749mik5ParticipantJune 25, 2015 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1088750Yosi7MemberChazon Ish was against short sleeves and whenever someone with short sleeves goes to Rav Chaim Kanievsky he asks them if they don’t have enough money to buy long sleeves. This is based on the Mishna Berurah who seems to say (somewhere in the beginning of Siman Beis) that short sleeves for men are not tznius because most people have it covered. The Minhag is not like this because Bzman Hazeh many men go with there elbows uncovered. And yes it is true that Rav Moshe went with short sleeves.
June 25, 2015 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #1088751mik5ParticipantMy chavrusa told me that according to the Chazon Ish zatzal you need to wash if you touch yourself below the elbow, because the Chazon Ish zatzal considered that to be a part of the body that is usually covered.
My chavrusa said that they looked askance at him when he was in Bnei Brak with short sleeves.
Hmmm….
June 25, 2015 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1088752👑RebYidd23ParticipantBelow the elbow?
June 25, 2015 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #1088754mik5ParticipantRebYid23 – I meant, above the wrist area.
June 26, 2015 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #1088755Yosi7Membermik5- not sure thats what the Chazon Ish says. He says anyting above the elbow not below it.
June 26, 2015 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #1088756Sam2Participantmik5: That doesn’t make sense. The hand-washing thing from places that are normally covered are not directly because they’re normally-covered. It’s because the parts that are normally covered are those that are sweatier because they’re where two different parts of skin meet (Zevachim 18bish).
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.