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I was wondering if someone could clear up something about velvet kippahs – I heard two things recently and was wondering which one was correct.
1) A velvet kippah has two layers and therefore acts as a double layer during davening
2) The lining of a velvet kippah is like the lining of a jacket and therefore the kippah is considered one layer.
#2 seemed like it made more sense to me, but I thought I would throw this out to see what others knew.
Hate to break it to you, the lining is to protect the “velvet” as is the lining on your talis, a protection for the talis from your sweat.
Anyone know where one can find the old style kippot; the ones that sort of stand up straight and cover most of the head?
SJS the lining is probably to protect the kippah from sweat and also to give “body” to the velvet, so it stays on the head. If the #1 idea you mentioned is to imply that one need not wear a hat with such a kippah, because it intrinsically is already a double covering for the head – well I don’t know that this is a possible reason why the kippah is made that way, but for those who do not wear hats when davening, it certainly is worth an inquiry of a rov if that would cover that issue (pun intended).
BS”D
cantoresq – Eichler’s in BP has just about any style yarmulke you can imagine.
I once heard #1 years ago in yeshiva, but it makes no sense. #2 makes sense- it’s one covering, and it protects your head from sweat.
Siman 90 in the shulchan aruch says that one should keep one’s head covered while davening. Siman 2 in the shulchan aruch says one should always keep his head covered. The Igros Moshe says that as long as your head isn’t “not covered”, then it’s covered. In other words, there is no minimum shiur for yarmulke. Some recent poskim say that the Igros moshe would admit that by davening, the head covering should cover most of a person’s head. The Mishna Brurah brings down the Chayei Adam that nowadays when we wear a hat in the street, we should wear one for davening. The Taz says that one should be “meutaf” in his tallis, ie completely wrapped in it, with his head covered by it. This is brought down by the Shlah and other kabbalah-oriented sources. We are mikayeim the Taz by Shma and shemonah esrei when we cover our heads with the Tallis.
In sum, 3 reasons to cover one’s head:
1. The rule that one should have his head covered by davening
2. The rule that one should wear a hat
3. The rule that one’s head should be covered in a tallis.
Two layers instead of one on a yarmulke has no bearing on any of the other 2 halachos. So I’ll go with “yeshivish shtus”. i heard it too. But it doesn’t pass the “sources” muster.
SJSinNYC I’m referring to the kippot everyone used to wear. They were big, had a 1.5-2 inch rim and stood up. they looked something like the Bukharian kippot, but were all black satin
cantoresq: like R’ Moshe Feinstein ZT”L?
There is no basis for wearing one head covering that has two layers. There are some sources that suggest that, while davening, it is not considered proper to simply wear one’s hat and discard his kippa – a person should also wear his kippa underneath. (The sixth lubavitcher rebber, in his igros, suggested attributing kabbalistic significance to this).
That is how the “two layered kippa” story started. It is a bubbamaysa that was concocted during the 20th century.
In general, the earliest source for specifically wearing a hat during davening (as opposed to a smaller head covering), is derived from the Rokeach. It is proper to have atifa during davening, such as by draping a tallis over one’s head. In 13th century Germany, people did not wear a tallis during mincha or ma’ariv. The Rokeach suggested that the people were at least accomplishing “miktzas atifa” (partial atifa) by wearing their hats during davening. This Rokeach was quoted by some later achronim, but was not specifically mentioned by a large number of poskim.
As the Mishnah B’rurah writes, wearing a hat during davening is primarily a means of “hikon” (proper decorum during davening). After all, as the Chofetz Chaim writes, if people wouldn’t even walk down the street without their hats, it is certainly disrespectful to daven without a hat.
The basic requirement of hikon is that someone present themselves at davening the same as if they were going to a meeting with a governor or president.
In communities where people walk down the street without a hat, and go to job interviews without a hat, and even meet the president without a hat, “hikon” doesn’t require a person to daven with a hat. In such a case, the only possible halachic basis for an ordinary Ben Torah to wear a hat would be the Rokeach. (Of course, if someone is davening in a shul where everyone wear hats, “lo sisgod’du” and “minhag hamakom” may also be factors.)
Sort off, yes.
TJ, shkoyach for the Rokeach. Was not familiar with it.
what’s with the 6 piece/section yarmalkas these days??? seems like many are wearing them???? any basis to it????
Cantoresq, they have bins of kippot at Sephardic shuls. I think that’s what you’re refering to. You could probably order them in a Jewish bookstore I know people do that to give them out at Bar Mitzvahs.
asdfghjkl, I once heard that some people don’t want a “tzelem” on their yarmulke. a 4 piece yarmulke as a cross. This is lechora not based in halacha. Even real crosses are permitted if it’s for decoration, although it’s mechuor. An incidental cross should definitely not be a problem
In Eretz yisroel, many chareidim are makpid to wear a velvel kippah with a ribbon at the bottom, as oposed to the straight-up full velvet jobs. There is a saying there- “kol sheholeich bekippa beli seret besof holeich leseret beli kippah” (one who walks with a yarmulka without a ribbon will end up going to a movie without wearing a yarmulke) , a play on the fact that “seret” means both ribbon and movie. Cute statement, but what’s the mekor?
Jothar: thanx!!! i get it now!!!
asdf, Jothar, I was under the impression that the difference between the 4 & 6 section is in the way it fits on people’s heads. Some heads look better in 4 and others look better in 6;
Mayan_Dvash: maybe, seems like more of a shicky thing to me, the 6 section ones!!!
shticky velvet kippa??
moish01: seems like that to me in yeshiva!!!
isn’t that self contradictory?
It’s like the 2 layers thing- people are bodeh mitzvos milibam to explain simple style choices. All the pictures of gedolim from Europe show them as bochurim wearing grey suits and grey hats. Now they’re treif for a bachur. The style now is black, but it’s no mitzvah.
moish01: i guess in a way it is!!!
As long as no one starts saying that a certain Kippah color, style or size is Halacha L’Moshe Me’Sinai.
Yarmulke size is a machlokes Rav Shlomo Kluger and Reb Moshe ZT”L (first igros moshe of OC 1). Rav Shlomo Kluger holds that it has to cover most of your head. Reb Moshe ZT”L says any shiur in which your head is viewed as covered is good enough.
i KNEW i was a r’ moshe guy!
moish01, after you go back to yeshiva for a few years we will start calling you R’ Moish
Did the Rambam wear a yarmulka under his turban? If not, was it a double layered turban?
mod42: the name’s just moish! sorry i couldn’t resist! i had to do that for the kid! 😉
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