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DY -“The very nature of conspiracy theories is that they can’t be “disproven” because whatever evidence there is is dismissed as a lie and cover up. So I can’t “disprove” your nonsense, but I can point out that there is no real evidence of the vaccines being dangerous, just worthless anecdotes”
You can’t talk Logic to Conspiracy Theorists.
The very nature of Conspiracy Theorists is that they believe Illogical Theories!Ywnjudy -“It’s precisely the socialist/fascist mentality to cast ridicule by repetitively parroting the media’s socialist cliches. Repeat words often enough, then we’ll believe it IF we’re fools, but you can’t fool ALL of us ALL the time.”
“I mean, after all, Rav Kanievsky paskened, and it does say “tzaddik gozer v’Hashem m’kayem”That’s one big Lie!
If it’s only because of – “tzaddik gozer v’Hashem m’kayem”, he could have done it the other way around!
He should have said No Jews should die from Covid-19.
But he didn’t say that.
He said the proper Hishtadus is to Vax.
But I guess you know more than him!RW: -Cases have been going down even before the vaccine, so what exactly are you trying to prove here?
Indeed, cases are going up and down around the world. Now, say, India and Eastern Europe are going up. The peaks seem to be a couple of month long – cases going up, people getting scared again, becoming more careful, cases going down, people relaxing early. I took not a sample, but TOP countries with high vaccination rates, they are in somewhat different areas, cases are going down in all. So, as you are saying, it may be a coincidence, but already probable. With 1-2 months further we will see more. In addition, both Israel and UK report that most of current patients are not vaccinated, that rates per vaccinated person are drastically lower.
This dies not mean that some individuals did not have adverse results from the vaccine, just that overall effects are very very positive. So, statistically, the only reason to delay vaccination is if you are not interacting with anyone. Vilna Gaon would probably need vaccine only when Dubno Maggid was visiting, the rest of the time he could sit by himself and learn.
“Just look at how many people they hooked up to ventilators without need only for the money even if it killed them which it has.”
This is a lie. These patients weren’t breathing enough to sustain their own lives and needed medical intervention. At the time a ventilator seemed to be the best medical decision.“What was it something like $3000 for a Covid patient but $6500 for a dead one?”
Lets assume these numbers are accurate, surely they would make more money keeping these patients alive and get paid per day rather than one lump sum for when they die.
Do you have any source that hospitals get paid every time a patient dies?“I dont need to prove anything. There have been numerous cases of people dying hours later after the vaccine.”
Actually you do. (Not you per say, because you are a fringe conspiracy theorist who will carry your warped narrative till the end) Sure, there are people who die shortly after receiving the vaccine, people die every day. But if the vaccine was causing it to happen there would be an measurable increase in these incidents occurring – more strokes, heart attacks, etc… in people who just received the vaccine.“Also dont forget how everyone who entered the Hospital were automatically listed as a Covid patient.”
Another lie.“even the WHO came out to say that the real number was less than 10,000 strictly Covid.”
Highly misleading, (I’m pretty sure) you are referring to the number of deaths among people who had NO other comorbidities, no high blood pressure, COPD, diabetes, heart problems. The vast majority of adults have at least one. (AHA estimates that 103 million Americans have high blood pressure)Rightwriter -“And by the way @Health, I dont need to prove anything. There have been numerous cases of people dying hours later after the vaccine. The media made sure to report it by prefacing “that it was unrelated to vaccine and they died of natural causes”. Even if they would have died on the spot they would say it was unrelated and you would believe them. Just as that nurse Tiffany Dover collapses live on cameras and they forced her to say she has a fainting disorder which happens frequently and randomly. Way to be a nurse with that condition, sure.”
Even if you are Right, which you haven’t proved, there’s No reason to Not Vax.
The whole premise of Anti- Vaxxers is to show -“I don’t have to listen to anyone – I know better”!
This is the fact, no matter what you say – Vaxxing saves More Lives than Not Vaxxing.
So even if they’re cases of deaths because they got the Vax – there are much more cases of the Vax saving people’s lives!
Who taught you Logic?!?
Whomever it was – you should get a Refund!“How do you know they needed it bk613, were you there?”
Yes.“On the other hand there are many accounts from patients”
Many of which were widely blown out of proportion and exaggerated, if not fabricated, as they got passed around the community and social media.“as well as some brave nurses who risked it all just to expose what was going on”
Why do you believe a handful of random nurses and not the hundreds of doctors/nurses who say otherwise, including dozens of frum medical professionals? Does it have anything to do with your preconceived biases?“Its a fact that you can look up, which has been reported on how they were hooking up 2 patients to the same ventilator which already risks both lives at once”
It’s a fact that hospitals considered this. They considered this out of desperation. In any event, to the best of my knowledge, this approach was hardly used and was discouraged by most medical organizations. If you have proof otherwise please share it.“untrained technicians using ventilators improperly which resulted in death”
What are your qualifications to judge if a vent was being used properly or not?“And you know what if dying a few hours later as a result of the vaccine isnt proof enough, then vaccinated people not getting sick isnt proof that its due to the vaccine. Prove that it is.”
Vaccinated people develop a measurable immune response/antibodies against the virus. What’s your proof that these people died from the vaccine?Rightwriter -“-well then by your logic even if many people died from Covid, many more survived. So whats your logic here again?There are much more cases of people surviving rather than not!”
I hate to explain simple things – obviously for those that will survive Covid-19 or won’t get very sick – no one would spend the effort to create a Vax.
But the reality is a lot of patients got very sick and some died.
This is why they made the vaccine against Covid-19.
So to combat these patients that will otherwise get very sick and some of them will die, they created a vaccine!
This has stopped a lot of deaths.
People like you, live in some Make Believe World.
Did you ever see s/o die?
If not, go watch them die from Covid-19 – you might change your tune!Vaccinated people develop a measurable immune response/antibodies against the virus.
This is true. Also, the studies have compared vaccinated to unvaccinated, and the vaccinated have had much lower rates of infection from Covid. They have not, to the best of my knowledge, has a higher rate of death from other causes (although there have been some allergic reactions). Rightwriter would need evidence of that, not some random questionable anecdotes.
“-oh for every case, ok interesting“
Yes, that is obviously what I meant.whats your proof that they developed it from the vaccine. Maybe it was just a coincidence that they developed it after getting the shot
Control group
Rightwriter -“Why force people with antibodies to get the vaccine. How could it be that someone with antibodies which so far are lasting for over a year can transfer the virus but s vaccinated individual which is projected to last 3-6 months and constantly will require more shots cannot transfer it.”
Another Lie.
In this country, as far as I know, no one is forced to vaccinate!
But you conspiracy theorists – thrive on Scaring people to Not Vaccinate!Btw, the latest projection is that if you Vax – it should last 1 – 2 years.
>> Why force people with antibodies to get the vaccine.
nice, this is a great bridge for people without masks to jump into vax resistance. Did you consult any halakhic authority with these questions?
rw>> Problem with vaccine, no can’t be!
exactly, at least with western vaccines, problems are being tracked and identified. So, hopefully you will trust now that the other vaccines are as safe as it is reported.
It is obvious that benefits outweigh the risks for older population, so by the time 30-y.o. are vaccinated, you can already see even the minor problems. So, overall thousands of lives saved so far.
AAQ -“Problem with vaccine, no can’t be!”
Don’t bother with these Antivaxxers.
He/she knew Very well that the US Vaccines don’t have these types of problems that vaccines in other countries do!Antivaxxers are like people who worship AZ.
They aren’t interested in the Truth, just their corrupt way of thinking!>> oh so that’s how it works
rw, you are taking like a posiled child… it is worldwide emergency, various people and organizations are trying to help as much as we can, and you are sitting here commenting that there is not enough certainty. Again, AZ is helping much more people than it hurt. They stopped it wen they noticed a minor problem. Pfizer and Moderna are out for 5 months already, saved a lot of lives, and they have similar monitoring in multiple countries.
Again, your alternatives are either to be isolated (which is fine), or, if you in contact with other people, accept uncertainty of the virus itself. Just what is safer – a full virus that killed millions already (and was possibly designed o kill you) or a vaccine that is designed to help you so far passed various safety tests. Take your pick.
health >> Very well that the US Vaccines don’t have these types of problems that vaccines in other countries do
I don’t think there was much difference in European and US regulations. You are right that US did not approve AZ yet, but that does not mean that US-approved vaccines might not have had similar, relatively minor, issues. Using these vaccines for high-risk population was surely justified to begin with, and by the current time when low-risk population gets to it, there is a lot of data on safety. AZ case is reassuring that such minor issues are addressed.
“Antivaxxers are like people who worship AZ.”
My abreviation was AZ – Avodah Zorah, Not Astra Zenica!
its worthwhile to point out over here that in israel you can get a green passport in 3 ways:
1. take both doses of the vaccine
2. recover from corona (lasts only 6 months)
3. test positive for antibodiesnow this is significant for the coffee-room-conspirators to know because it shows very clearly that they DO understand that there is natural immunity. only after 6 months you need to show you are still immune and it didnt go away.
rightwriter
As you can see if there is concern, the government says so. They recommended pausing the vaccine.
This shows the OPPOSITE of what you contend. There is no secret nefariosu plan to depopulate the world“Can’t be must be unrelated to the vaccine since there is no proof. ”
It might be unrelated to the vaccine. all 6 of these people (out of 7 million does given !) were young women where they taking OCP’s which are knwon to predispose to blood clots? If so does the vaccine exacerbate the risk or was it just bad timing. time will tell. but now when there are other vaccines available, it makes sense to pause this one while this is sorted out.Rightwriter -“Again, experimental vaccine means just that.”
Exactly. There’s a choice in this Country – some want to take the Pizer or the Monderna.
You can take nothing.Rightwriter
“Anyway there’s little to do in order to make you understand since you just aren’t capable. ”
Thanks, but I’m not looking for you to help me understand anything. You do not have an elementary understanding of hosw syudioies or evidence works, and arent even willing to listen.
What I am trying to do, is point out the gaping holes in your theories, and your blatant dishonesty.
Exhibit B: You say “Also I didn’t say anything about depopulation”
Yet on March 31 2021 at 11:33 AM you posted the following ” Bill Gates has been talking about depopulation for years especially “through vaccines”.” * you also wrote “But when a person who has been crying out for pandemics, depopulation and vaccines for so many years is now suddenly in charge of this whole project, it’s a bit concerning.”
* for the record, Like everything your write this isnt exactly true either
bill Gates said “Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we lower that by perhaps 10 or 15%”As he explained elsewhere Vaccines lower infant mortality and “Amazingly, as children survive, parents feel like they’ll have enough kids to support them in their old age, so they choose to have less children,”
All the best!
“eizeh hu chacham haroeh es hanolad”. That represents rightwirter. Yet on the other hand, miracles are occurring even as i speak, and likewise, will occur on such dates they have planned to let loose various pandoras boxes. As i said “tzadik gazar”.
From my personal perspective, between me, myself and i, i frankly don’t know what’s worse, my severely painful ailments or Covid. And the two may even be mutually exclusive. After all, there was that woman in Israel who’d been disabled for decades by a virus, yet Covid cured her.
That’s what i mean by mutually exclusive! See, even inside the human anatomy EIN SHNEI MELOCHIM MESHAMSHIM B’KESER ECHAD! So maybe if i’d get Covid, i’d finally get some pain relief.
Last I checked they are introducing vaccine passports which will only allow vaccinated people to be part of society. So what were you saying about choice?
Where did you check? Who’s “they”? What specific restrictions are “they” implementing that will not allow you to be part of society?
>> all 6 of these people (out of 7 million does given !) were young women where they taking OCP’s which are knwon to predispose to blood clots?
this link is yet unclear. Initial reaction to AZ blood clots was similar, but now they are thinking that there were many young women nurses in initial vaccination.
for those who are thinking where there is a balance between vaccine and COVID, here are numbers from European statisticians:
for 20-30 y.o – risk of serious complication from AZ is 1 in 100,000. Risk of being in ICU in next 4 months: from 1 in 100,000 to 7 in 100,000, depending on your level of exposure. So, in this case risk seems to be balanced for 20-30 y.o.To adjust to US situation:
– Blood cloth risks of J&J seems to be several times lower than AZ. mRNA vaccines were not observed to have similar levels of risks (with a lot of real world testing).
– Risks from virus exposure are about same as in EuropeSo, it seems that benefits of any vaccine are significantly higher for those over 30-40.
Those in 20s without much exposure (online college students, mothers at home, Torah scholars in small groups) might want to wait for 1-2 months while others, who need it more, are getting vaccines. I am not a medical doctor, this is not a professional advice.effects of vaccines so far: UK has 470 and Israel have 410 cases per million in last 2 weeks.
NO country on European continent have it that low, closest Portugal has 650, most have in thoiusands, highest – Hungary 8,000, France, Poland 7,000+, Sweden 6,000this seems like a serious indication that vaccines work. Notice that brave UK decision to disregard (incorrectly defined) “science” and have everyone do one shot first seems to be paying off.
Are the governments going to ban people from using these facilities, or is it the owners of the facilities who are going to ban unvaccinated people from using them?
Rightwriter,
Many of these venues, if not all, are private businesses. They have a right to demand that before entering that you either have a recent negative covid test or are vaccinated.
They have a right and responsibility to open safely for all of their customers.
If you don’t want a vaccine or a negative covid test, you have the option of not going into these places.
If you have to work from home and order food from Amazon that is your option.
Nobody needs to risk getting covid because you don’t want a vaccine or a negative test.AAQ
“this link is yet unclear.”
Yes very. As I said in my post :
“It MIGHT BE unrelated to the vaccine. … time will tell…. it makes sense to pause this one while this is sorted out.”
“Why stop there what about the flu shot why should anyone be at risk from you”
Ok I give up, why should they be?
“. What about making vaccines for h1n1 and ebola and swine flu and bird flu and anything else so that no one is at risk from you.”
Excellent news! There is a vaccine for H1N1 (I had it in 2009), Ebola , Swine flu (H1N1 see above) AND bird flu (H5N1)
Its odd that you want vaccines for a list of diseases, some of which are the same and all of which already have vaccines.
It sounds like you don’t know much about vaccines
-whoever it will be makes no difference
Of course it does, because the same way you feel nobody should force you to take a vaccine, you should agree that no business should be forced to allow unvaccinated people onto their premises.
“this link is yet unclear.”
I am taking it back. 6 J&J cases cited in today’s ACIP meeting are all but one females between 18 and 50. Vaccines were given 50-50 for men and women. So, the link is suggestive. Still, I guess, it is possible that men just did not go the doctor as we usually do (not), although we are talking about serious symptoms.
“then make it mandatory for everyone to take it and carry a passport for it as well”
putting the side that no one is forcing you to take any vaccine you. You don;t want to gezunterheit (not literally obviously) but don’t force us to let you into our stores, shuls etc
1) Ok no problem (though I don’t have that power) I’m not sure how this is an argument for you
2) none of those 3 (not 4) diseases are currently pandemic, so the comparison today makes no sense
3) Again that just further ruins your theories. why DIDNT Obama make H1N1 mandatory in 2009 (when there was a pandemic) ? If the whole thing is just a nefarious plot to take away our freedoms why Didnt Obama do it? (I understand Trump was sent by Q to route out a secret Cabal or whatever you believe so he wouldnt steal freedom, but Obama?)So anyone who’s not vaccinated automatically has the virus and will make everyone sick? Especially if they have antibodies?
That’s called a straw man argument, because nobody said everyone who is unvaccinated has the virus and will spread it.
It’s no different then if I would mischaracterize you argument as being that anyone who takes the vaccine will definitely get sick from it.
I don’t disagree with your argument about antibodies. I think businesses which don’t want potential virus carriers to enter their premises should accept a confirmed positive antibodies test
as well as proof of vaccination. But that’s also their choice.
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