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The bigger the fight gets, the stronger the resistance, the deeper the mistrust, and the more distraction from the benefits/necessity of the vaccine.
If people would just get their information on vaccination from their own physicians instead of cable TV, Facebook or assorted conspiracy theorists there would be almost universal compliance.
I have yet to meet a physician or nurse who has not been vaccinated and had all eligible family members vaccinated.
In the summer of 1956 or 1957 we all lined up to get a polio vaccine which ended polio in America. I was young, but don’t remember any anti vaxers or demonstrators at the sites.Yaakov doe,
“I have yet to meet a physician or nurse who has not been vaccinated and had all eligible family members vaccinated.”
There are hospitals facing nursing shortages due to being forced to comply with state regulations that mandate healthcare workers to be vaccinated.
Did you ever hear of a person vaccinated against polio who became sick with polio because someone else didn’t get the polio vaccine?
Participant,
What do you suggest should be done?
People who recovered from Covid do not need the vaccine.
Look up herd immunity. Making false claims about what vaccines can and should do is just dumb and delusional.
Cruz, good question.
CDC says that 2 IPV polio shots give, gasp, 90% protection. 3 shots give 99%. They say they do not know how long immunity lasts (but I presume longer than Covid). Many other vaccines do not give full or long-term protection, such as flu. before COVID, there were NO vaccines for coronoviruses, despite many of them circulating. Several more differences:
1) Covid is currently circulating much more than polio did. Lower chances of encountering virus meant much lower chances of infection after vaccine
2) During polio times, the world was not so connected. People were not getting text messages that someone on another side of the world got hit by a bus right after getting a vaccine.
3) People were less educated. Now they are a little more educated and think that they can understand statistics even when they do not, or when someone gives them skewed data in CAPS: DO YOU KNOW THAT MOST SICK IN PEORIA ARE WITH VACCINE EVEN AS 100% of PEORIANS ARE
VACCINATED.> There are hospitals facing nursing shortages
I quoted vaccination numbers before – doctors are I think 95%, registered nurses are not far behind. Bedside nurses may be an issue. And even a small percentage of losing staff matters especially given that they all are exhausted after dealing with COVID, especially now when they deal in part with people who chose not to vaccinate. The nurse may decide why does he need to do mesiras nefesh for people who do not care and quit and go into finance. Cf halakha of raising an animal “with the owner”.
Participant> The bigger the fight gets, the stronger the resistance,
Agree. The main goal of learning critical thinking is to be able to analyze data disregarding personal preferences. Talmudic learning does the same thing. Those who did not learn it obviously failed their learning, whether yeshiva or college, whatever their hats/degrees are.
“Did you ever hear of a person vaccinated against polio who became sick with polio because someone else didn’t get the polio vaccine?”
Bad example. you see Polio vaccine existed before WhatsApp and Facebook. So Antivaxxers, did not have accessto their sources of “research”
If your example was measles then yes I havePArticipant
I’m not sure.
The vaccine has been available for a while now. Anyone who was planning ot get it would have gotten it. Unfortunately it i is still not enough. After a bunch of early enthusiasm, people fighting for vaccines, cutting in line, People accused of redirecting vaccines, it leveled off in the usmmer to an extent.
The way to push it further is with mandates. Are there people willing to lose their job to avoid it? Sure and that is their prerogative. But while icky, the mandates are more likely to push those on the fence to get it than push them not to. The vocal ones are largely people who would not have gotten it without a vaccineujm,
“People who recovered from Covid do not need the vaccine”
Maybe if they had sufficient antibodies the argument might make some sense. Just because someone had covid in the past does not make them immune, there are a lot of people that got covid twice. In fact, bad covid twice, with hypoxia and severe respiratory symptoms.
2scents -“There are hospitals facing nursing shortages due to being forced to comply with state regulations that mandate healthcare workers to be vaccinated”
It’s Wrong the way DemonCrats are forcing e/o to vaxxed.
I agree with the OP.
We aren’t children. How could anyone vote for these DemonCrats?
OTOH, you shouldn’t have the right to work in healthcare if you can spread disease to the patients there.Stop worrying about shortages. If they raise the salaries, the retirees will come back. And not only that, the Antivaxxers will get Vaxxed!
Even chicken-heads get it – Tyson Foods reported going from 50% vaccinated staff to 96% in last several months.
2scenta> Just because someone had covid in the past does not make them immune, there are a lot of people that got covid twice.
true, my hypothesis is that maybe first round creates some invisible damage in the body, making it easier to get seriously sick second time around. Also, statistically speaking, a person who got covid, is a person who is in a risky environment due to some combination of health status, work condition, housing situation, and personal stubbornness – as most of these, including stubbornness, do not usually improve from COVID, likelihood of a repeat are high. They should take at least one doze, I think.
ujm,
“People who recovered from Covid do not need the vaccine”
Maybe if they had sufficient antibodies the argument might make some sense. Just because someone had covid in the past does not make them immune, there are a lot of people that got covid twice.
Getting Covid twice is rare.
Based on your argument (not mine), you shouldn’t vaccinated since people can get Covid despite being vaccinated.
For those rare cases of getting Covid a second time (or a first time after vaccinating), the symptoms are very rarely severe.
Indeed, European countries accept proof of having recovered from Covid as a basis to not vaccinate and still be permitted in places where otherwise only vaccinated people are permitted.
America refuses to do that only for political reasons.
On 1/6 a group of unarmed civilians protested at the capital. These mandates may result in many law enforcement officers and soldiers losing thier job. The question will be does the government have adequate protection to insure law & order. It is very easy to say you will just replace them but it itakes months to train a replacement. This will result in higher crime rates resulting in businesses closing and people moving resulting in lose of tax revenue, Social programs will have to be cut resulting in riots.
Participant,
Those who are making the vaccine mandates feel that they have given people enough time to get vaccinated on their own volition.
For the sake of public health, those making the mandates are convinced that the benefits of every individual being vaccinated demands that every individual join in this effort. This will hopefully reduce to close to zero the amount of people dying and getting sick from covid.The medical community has done its job of education regarding the vaccines.
There was hype about “the” vaccine – all 5 of them from different manufacturers (3 in the US) – because until the vaccine there was a Maloch Hamoves killing and causing sickness to tens of millions of people from covid. The vaccines stopped it.
Maybe there is a chiyuv of shehecheyanu.Masks are just a inconvenience to wear and if it helps protect immunocompromised people from getting sick then it is best to wear it.
Some distrust is healthy suspicion. Too much is conspiracy theory territory.
Oh Jackk, -“Too much is conspiracy theory territory”
Why doesn’t this apply to all the repurposed Therapies that Studies have proven that they work?
Why didn’t they approve them at the beginning?
Why are they still Not approving some of these Therapies?!?Current peak in Covid deaths in Us is going for last 2 months and is as high as last March and just half off December peak. Besides low vaccination, I think the other reason is that last year all papers were blaming Covid on Trump with daily front page pictures and articles. This lead population to be more cautions. Now, the storyline is that this is in Republican states (not fully true as also CA, OH, WI…) and not a national problem, and we are on the way to fighting global warming.
AAQ -“Current peak in Covid deaths in Us is going for last 2 months and is as high as last March and just half off December peak”
So the answer is don’t force people to Vaxx.
Give them a choice – Either vaxx or cheap repurposed drugs.Oh Jackk, -“For the sake of public health, those making the mandates are convinced that the benefits of every individual being vaccinated demands that every individual join in this effort.”
I’m Vaxxed and I take Zinc & Quercitin.
But in NYC there are a lot of city workers that have antibodies.
And a lot just don’t like DeBlasio’s Dictatorship!
So obviously the city government isn’t really concerned about Public Health, because come Monday morning they won’t have enough Essential Services!
So there will be a lack of police protection, lack of responding to Fires & Medical Emergencies.
Tons of garbage, which they’ll be Rats & Disease because of it.
But the DemonCrat Dictator must get his way!Health,
It does apply to the repurposed therapies.
Either you believe in conspiracy theories or you believe that they are slow, inept, overburdened, and red tape.Health,
If they don’t like the mayor, they can quit.
Personal anti bodies is a reason to decide on what to personally do.Vaccine mandates are a public policy issue.
As the right likes to repeat about people getting killed by the police -“all they need to do is comply.”
If they can’t comply, then they will suffer the consequences.Oh Jackk, -“If they can’t comply, then they will suffer the consequences.”
You’re so interested in protecting your DemonCrat Leadership – you didn’t even begin to understand my post!
I don’t care what happens to the City employees, but my point is the DemonCrat Leadership Don’t care about
Public Health!
Here it is again:
“So obviously the city government isn’t really concerned about Public Health, because come Monday morning they won’t have enough Essential Services!
So there will be a lack of police protection, lack of responding to Fires & Medical Emergencies.
Tons of garbage, which they’ll be Rats & Disease because of it.”Health > So the answer is don’t force people to Vaxx.
Well, a inhumane libertarian answer would be to let them deal with this on their own, including the cost of whatever medicines they require. Maybe insurance will cost more for unvaxxed – this is free market and is happening, but too slow for a pandemic.
Even buying the benefits of the miracle drugs you advocate, let’s say they are 75% effective (this is way over what tests show). Then 25% of them would require expensive medical treatment. Let them pay it. Sometimes money impresses people more than lives (drashos on b’hol meodeha and “your money or your life – I am thinking, I am thinking”). So, maybe if one person gets billed for full cost of oxygen, etc, maybe your whole shtetl will wake up? maybe just start a rumor about it
AAQ -“Well, a inhumane libertarian answer would be to let them deal with this on their own, including the cost of whatever medicines they require. Maybe insurance will cost more for unvaxxed – this is free market and is happening, but too slow for a pandemic.”
I’d agree with that if the Vaccines were 100% effective!
But e/o knows they aren’t even close.
So what do they do if a Vaxxed pt. gets Covid?
They hospital them & give Monoclonals & Remedsivir.
I’m advocating Repurposed Drugs, which are much cheaper than the above.Health, vaxed person did his minimal hishtadlus and thus deserves support. I am not contradicting your position on the drugs. I have my doubts based on cursory review of literature, but if you are dealing with am koshe oref, your approach is probably reasonable. If they will not do anything else, give them things that might help even if unproven in tests. I also saw am announcement of a cheap drug finally proven in who tests. Also the new Merck drug is cheap to produce, we will just be paying extra for their r&d, but it will be affordable in poor countries.
Do your customers have to pay out of pocket or they are covered by insurance/government? I presume you will now recommend the Merck tablet also
AAQ -” If they will not do anything else, give them things that might help even if unproven in tests.”
That’s your mistake.
Those drugs have many studies that they work.
What happened here in the US, Trump was trying to get a hold of this Pandemic, so pushed HCQ. This didn’t go well with Fauci, so he distanced himself.
The MSM & the Libs used this as an opportunity to make the treatment of Covid 19 into a political fight.
Once they got away with it, just like they got away with Stealing the 2020 election, this empowered them!
So they weren’t afraid to do the Same thing with Ivermectin!
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