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Come to think of it, shouldn’t there be some perks to those who dedicate themselves to the public and get out of bed at all hours of the night, give up their shabbos meals with their families, their quiet time after work, and interrupt their daily routines to help?
Driving and parking “perks” cannot be claimed where the government did not grant it.
Here We Go Again – There is nothing wrong with perks, but these perks, that we are talking about, are illegal and dangerous!
There are no perks.
They are not allowed to use L&S when not on call.
The OP is referring to VAS plates, sometimes cops will look the other way if someone has VAS or EMT plates, however these are not perks.
I cannot understand how people are jealous of volunteers who respond without prior notice, they give up their schedule to help the community.
2cents-I know you say that members don’t put on their lights to make a red light-but unfortunately that just happened recently. My husband was driving and the street was backed up with traffic. The light turned green and the cars where slowly moving. The car behind my husband put on his lights and thinking that it was a Hatazaloh member on call my husband pulled over. The car passed my husband and made the green light and then he turned the light off. So my husband ended up missing the light because the guy in back of him decided to take advantage of his lights.
agent,
Three things come to my mind.
Either that person was not a member, just someone with lights and sirens that took unreasonable and dangerous risk and broke the law.
Either the call has been canceled or downgraded, (for instance as the first person the scene radios to the other units responding that they can downgrade it and proceed without lights and sirens.
Or, this was a bad apple, someone that misused and abused his L&S.
There is no real way of knowing what really happened. I know that it looks upsetting when you see someone turning on his L&S only to shut it a few minutes later, however there might be a legitimate reason as to why he did so.
agent:
I see what you describe happening quite frequently.
2scents -“There are no perks.”
Maybe not officially, but some seem take perks that they aren’t allowed to.
“I cannot understand how people are jealous of volunteers who respond without prior notice, they give up their schedule to help the community.”
You said you aren’t a member of Hatzolah, so why the relentless defense of them?
The fact is the people posting here aren’t jealous, they are angry. Do you know the difference?
They are angry about some members abuses. While I’m sure most members have joined for the right reasons and never abuse the system, there are some that haven’t and do abuse.
Why do you seem to be in denial about this?
and for a new point of view i would like to mention that there are many nypd unmarked vehicles out there that flip their lights on and off to go thru lights as well.
how do u know which is which if the plates are not vas or emt?
2scents: I see what “agent” described above occur regularly. The member (frum driver with VAS plates) turns on his L&S for literally just a few seconds to beat a light or traffic and turns it off immediately after he passed the traffic.
Health,
Interesting that you should be asking a personal question after hiding your medical occupation and degree.
i will not hide the fact that there are bad people, however the majority of people that volunteer are responsible.
Recently there was a call a possible code 1, someone responded, however a few seconds seconds later other units that were closer radio’d that they are near by, therefore the first member can cancel, he passed two red lights before getting the cancelation notice.
i am sure that there were people that were mad at this person, however the fact of the matter was that he did act accordingly.
I am not hiding the fact there is abuse, however keep in mind that its a normal thing for members to get canceled or the call gets downgraded.
2scents -“Interesting that you should be asking a personal question after hiding your medical occupation and degree.”
I did Not ask any personal question. You don’t read the question well. Here it is again:
“You said you aren’t a member of Hatzolah, so why the relentless defense of them?”
You previously posted that you don’t belong to them. I never asked you whether you’re a member or not.
“i will not hide the fact that there are bad people, however the majority of people that volunteer are responsible.
I am not hiding the fact there is abuse, however keep in mind that its a normal thing for members to get canceled or the call gets downgraded.”
Only in your last two posts did you finally admit that there is abuse. While you keep saying that maybe these calls are real and the anger is unjustified, you ignore the instances of abuse in your posts where the anger is justified.
Health,
If you feel that you have to come out on top, then be it.
However I was not trying to debate or challenge you.
I did mention in one of my prior posts that abuse might be present, only that it is not common.
I never denied abuse. Only that it is extremely rare.
and yes, I am a volunteer, in the past week I have shut off the L&S three times, I went wrong way and even went through red lights before shutting the L&S.
Either the call was canceled or there were closer responder’s and I was no longer needed. Sorry if that made you mad.
It is neither rare nor uncommon. I’ve witnessed what “agent” described above, as well as other abuse, regularly over a period of many years. The lights and sirens (frum driver, frum neighborhood, VAS plates) go on for exactly the few seconds or so needed to beat a traffic control device (light, shoulder, street regulation, etc.) And I myself witnessed this repeatedly over time. Not to even get into the parking abuse when not on call.
The Litvishe Kiryas Yoelite -I honestly don’t know if it is rare or not, but one thing I can tell you is that this Hatzolah Org. is in denial that this exists; besides for a few members admitting it, most are in denial or don’t care that this goes on.
Health,
Interesting, you don’t know if abuse exists or if its rare yet you know that hatzoah is in denial.
TLKY,
Yes, all it takes for a radio transmission is a few seconds.
2scents: Puleaze. I’ve seen it happen quite often over a period of many year. And always for just enough time for the driver to turn on and off his lights & sirens for exactly the time it takes him to pass the traffic jam.
We both know it is not that often that a call comes in and is cancelled 45 seconds later. And the few times it does happen, how coincidental that it usually happens when the driver just so happens to be in a traffic jam rather than experiencing normal traffic.
We both know..
As I told you, this past week this happened to me three times.
So we do not both know. You are assuming, I’m giving you the facts.
You are claiming that you got a call three times this week — that you took and already turned on your l&s — that was cancelled in LESS than a minute? You didn’t say that above.
The fellows trying to beat a red light turn on their l&s just after they missed a green light — holding up everyone else in traffic — and turn if off as soon as they made the turn on red, literally a few seconds later. I’ve witnessed this very frequently over the years.
Theoretically it is possible they all just got a call, just as they missed the light, and the call got cancelled – just as soon as they went through the red. Theoretically. But I’ve seen it often enough — and I’m only one person — that theory makes the reality implausible.
I can almost guarantee that if you ask any yid out there, and even some non-Jews, what they think of hatzoloh, the first thing out of their mouths will be along the lines of: what they do is amazing and selfless. So please try to focus on the good and suck it up when you see something that annoys you. Just as you would hve to do if any driver starts driving up the shoulder on a highway with bumper to bumper traffic.
Posted by miritchka
“Suck it up?” Does your rav approve of such language? I do not.
Let’s put aside the questions about lights and sirens and talk about “perks” and parking.
If you volunteer for an organization you should do so with a good heart and without the expectation of personal benefit. If your organization provides benefits for which they pay, e.g. a free meal, that’s one thing. We are talking about other things.
According to your reasoning, since rendering emergency medical care is an important benefit to society, we should all collectively overlook the numerous parking violations of the holders of VAS plates. This might work except that: 1) as revealed in this thread, at least some VAS cars are driven by people who do not give emergency medical care so why should we excuse their violations; and 2) parking is regulated by the city government and VAS license plates are entitled to no parking privileges.
As discussed elsewhere in the Coffee Room, if you have a parking placard from the Department of Transportation, that is for use when you are attending to an emergency, not for your personal use.
When I see cars with VAS plates parked illegally for three days in a row, I call that abuse of the system. You should not condone it.
2scents – “and yes, I am a volunteer,”
Hatzolah or Spring Hill?
“Health, Interesting, you don’t know if abuse exists or if its rare yet you know that hatzoah is in denial.”
You lose any Neemanous when you twist people’s posts around. I said abuse exists, just don’t know if it’s rare or not.
I said two possible reasons why the Org. doesn’t put an end to this practice – “most are in denial or don’t care that this goes on.” So I said one or the other, not that I know for sure that they are in denial.
As a Hatzolah member, I would like to address this post with several points:
1. No VAS plate is issued without a letter from the agency that the registrant works for,
2. There ARE, in fact, many unscrupulous agencies in NYC that will issue a letter in exchange for a large (bribe) donation. It goes without saying, that Hatzolah will never do this,
4. ALL Hatzolah vehicles (private and Ambulances) have a NYS DOH inspection sticker in the right of the windshield. These stickers are blue and yellow and are visible at a distance. Absence of this sticker is another indication of an imposter,(look for it)
5. I have personally witnessed, on numerous occasions, vehicles bearing VAS plates being driven recklessly with L&S while there is no call going on. A check into the Hatzolah database always indicated that these are not H members. These individuals are rotzchim and I have no problem calling him a “rodef”. Unfortunately, there is nothing any of us can do besides hope that they get pulled, and a full investigation is launched as to where the plate authorizations came from,
6. Hatzolah has a zero tolerance for members abusing the law thereby putting the organization into jeopardy, the membership knows that we are under the public microscope and held to a higher standard,
7. We are not the Police and there is therefore not much that we can do regarding non-members who drive recklessly and break the law. It disturbs and angers us more than it annoys anyone of you.
In summation, I agree with all that there exists a real problem and being the agencies are abusing the system, there needs to be better oversight by DMV, and enforcement by the local Police.
TKYL
Yes sir. that is exactly what I claim, it is very common to respond to an emergency and a different volunteer to radio in that he is closer to the scene.
Especially when you claim that you have seen this over the years, which means that you have not seen it much, either way, a member has a lot to loose and little to gain when using his L&S in an unauthorized manner.
Health,
Why is it that you, one that on a consistent bases covers up what your occupation is (however uses is to put others down) keeps on asking me what mine is.
What matter does it make where I volunteer?
Either way, I have not twisted your post (I will comment that you have3 constantly done so to my posts, besides trying to put me down, however I ignored it, since I thought that it makes you feel better).
You comment and rant as if your in the know, However in the are that I am, there is no abuse.
(when I say no, I dont mean absolute, rather that it does not occur often, rather it is extremely rare).
i must say i am very surprised here. A bunch of freakin ingrates we have here.
let me ask all you haters out there the following question: Let us assume that there is no such thing a “fake hatzolah member” or whatever you wanna call them. and all the “horrible” things you see these guys do are really hatzolah members doing. WHAT IF YOU WERE THE PERSON CALLING IN THE CALL?????
I remember a story someone was complaining that a members radio was on very loud, i looked at the guy like he was ill, and asked him “what if you were the one calling in? would you not want this member to be able to hear the call???”
As far as hatzolah plaques giving you privileges, thats a load of garbage, i have gotten many a ticket with the hatzolah plaque even while on a call.
In summary: when u see a vas car blocking a hydrant or blocking a walkway, instead of thinking “what a jerk” think “if i were to get hit by a bus right now, BH this wonderful hoatzolah guys car is very close to him”
and FOR THE LOVE OF G-D get your facts straight the DOT permit given to hatzolah members ARE NOT so they can park illegally on a call (anyone can do that so long as they have the doh sticker and legal lights and sirens) the dot permit is so they can park “illegally” when they are NOT on the call so they a) dont have to waste time looking for parking and b) they have access to the car if a call goes out. Yes they “should not” be parking like that if they know 100% sure they can not go on a call at that time but again that usually is very rare because there is always that one call you MUST go on…….
2scents -“Health, Why is it that you, one that on a consistent bases covers up what your occupation is (however uses is to put others down) keeps on asking me what mine is.”
I don’t know why you have trouble comprehending certain simple concepts. I cover up my career for personal reasons. If for some reason telling us who you volly for is too revealing of personal info – then say so. It’s not tit for tat. It has nothing to with what I reveal to the public. And I never knew volunteering was an occupation. The way you respond to posts is revealing to me about your maturity. It sounds very teenageish.
“Either way, I have not twisted your post (I will comment that you have3 constantly done so to my posts, besides trying to put me down, however I ignored it, since I thought that it makes you feel better).”
You have because you posted this:
“Health, Interesting, you don’t know if abuse exists”
I never said that I don’t know. You put words into my mouth, so this is twisting my posts.
“You comment and rant as if your in the know, However in the are that I am, there is no abuse.
(when I say no, I dont mean absolute, rather that it does not occur often, rather it is extremely rare).”
Ok, so what occurs in the Monsey area occurs all over? Where did anybody post that in Monsey -Hatzolah abuse occurs quite often?
This topic was in general – so how could you come and defend the Org. when you are not familiar with what occurs in different areas?
The Litvishe Kiryas Yoelite –
All I can tell you is you’re wasting your breath, because you see clearly from YeshivaRodefKesef’s post that they are in denial!
jackness -“I remember a story someone was complaining that a members radio was on very loud, i looked at the guy like he was ill, and asked him “what if you were the one calling in? would you not want this member to be able to hear the call???”
I don’t like to comment on cases where I don’t have exact details, but let’s assume the complainer was justified and the radio was on very loud. Let’s also assume this was in a place where there should be quiet, eg. Shul. Btw, I’ve been in Shul with Hatzolah guys and usually the radio is not that loud. But assuming that this guy’s radio was very loud -you condemn the complainer because the Hatzolah guy can’t hear the call otherwise. While this would be an excuse if there was no other way -this is not the case. Why can’t the member use an ear piece instead of disturbing the people around him?
and FOR THE LOVE OF G-D get your facts straight the DOT permit given to hatzolah members ARE NOT so they can park illegally on a call (anyone can do that so long as they have the doh sticker and legal lights and sirens) the dot permit is so they can park “illegally” when they are NOT on the call so they a) dont have to waste time looking for parking and b) they have access to the car if a call goes out. Yes they “should not” be parking like that if they know 100% sure they can not go on a call at that time but again that usually is very rare because there is always that one call you MUST go on…….
Posted by Jackness.
This is absolutely, completely, totally incorrect.
The Department of Transportation permit alows illegal parking only while responding to an emergency. This has been discussed before in the Coffee Room with someone citing the exact regulations. If you have any doubt, however, check with the the DOT Authorized Parking and Permits Bureau.
VAS members do not get free, unrestricted parking 24/7/365. They have this privilege only while actually responding to an emergency. I would be worried about the judgment of someone who actually believes this nonsense.
YeshivaRodefKesef,
Out of respect to the moderaors, I will not quote back your entire post, merely one portion.
1. No VAS plate is issued without a letter from the agency that the registrant works for
Yes, we know this already. Here is a question for you: If VAS plates do not require the possession of an EMT or EMT-P license, then who gets them? Further, is it not true that some of these plate holders are not emergency responers?
Regarding the rest of your message, I have just one more question. Take a look at Borough Park. There are a number of shuls that have No Parking signs in front of them. Look at the block of 15th Avenue between 48th and 49th Streets on the northwest side. The only two buildings there are two shuls with No Parking signs in front of each. Between the afternoon of Sunday October 7 (Hoshanna Raba) and the morning of Wednesday October 10 (day after Simchat Torah), there were at least a half dozen cars with VAS plates parked there.
To which organization do these drivers belong and why does it not do anything about their law breaking?
The Department of Transportation permit alows illegal parking only while responding to an emergency. This has been discussed before in the Coffee Room with someone citing the exact regulations. If you have any doubt, however, check with the the DOT Authorized Parking and Permits Bureau.
Here’s a excerpt from Rudy Giuliani’s statement when he authorized the DOT to issue the permits:
Specifically, this bill will enable volunteer ambulance personnel to station their emergency ambulance service vehicles in close proximity to their work or home location, by permitting them to park in spaces that are prohibited by sign or rules, but only when the vehicle is on standby for an emergency ambulance service. The permit system does not and would not authorize the parking of motor vehicles in areas that would be contrary to public safety, such as fire hydrants or fire zones.
This permit system plays an important role in saving people’s lives in New York City. By allowing volunteer ambulance personnel to station vehicles near their home and work while on call for emergency service, the response time it takes EMTs to reach victims of medical emergencies is clearly improved.
Borough Park Mensch -“Further, is it not true that some of these plate holders are not emergency responers?”
Any member of a VAS can get VAS plates, even if they are EMT’s or EMT-P’s and even if they are not, as long as they are members. Most members of VAS put VAS on their license plates. They don’t want to put EMT or EMT-P on their plates anymore because they believe the VAS plates protects them from tickets. Whether this is actually the case or not, I don’t know.
“To which organization do these drivers belong and why does it not do anything about their law breaking?”
You really don’t know? I’m sure they are Hatzolah members. They probably parked there over Yom Tom because they probably Daven in those Shuls and they wanted their vehicle close by in case they have to respond from Shul. Whether this is illegal or not, I have no idea.
Dear “BP Mensch”, my post was clear, but as a response to your question anyway:
You asked:
If VAS plates do not require the possession of an EMT or EMT-P license, then who gets them? Further, is it not true that some of these plate holders are not emergency responers?
Response:
If you can find out how and why Bed-Stuy Volunteer Ambulance who gets literally no emergency calls, yet they have several hundred frum members, who mostly live in other boros, with VAS plates; you might be on your way to solving the problem here. And, Yes, none of these folks are emergency responders as I said. They are rotzchim !!
Your second Question:
Response:
See my answer above ! I agree this is a huge problem, but NOT a Hatzolah problem.
Also, you failed to mention how many of those cars had valid, current Hatzolah ID plaques. Id say most did not. If some are legit, I think that most would agree that members in shul do need their vehicles nearby to respond to a call and I defend their actions. Were not talking hydrants here. The problem were discussing here are non-members parking and driving with L&S on like lunatics.
To Health:
“To which organization do these drivers belong and why does it not do anything about their law breaking?”
You responded:
“You really don’t know? I’m sure they are Hatzolah members.”
Really? You know this how? You think or youre sure ?!?
You say youre sure, so I imagine you were there and checked each car and found a valid plaque and DOH sticker.
Ever heard of Dan l’kaf zechus, my friend?
Especially for those who drop whatever were doing when you need us?
Dash,
It’s unclear from your post if you are trying to contradict me or not. Assuming your quote of former Mayor Giulianis ia accurate, you should be aware that what you quoted and what the law itself says are two different things and it is the law that governs.
From the Administrative Code of the City of New York:
“19-162.2 Permissible parking for emergency ambulance service vehicles operating for volunteer ambulance services
a. For purposes of this section the following terms shall have the
following meanings:
1. “volunteer emergency medical technician” shall mean an individual
who meets the minimum requirements established by regulations pursuant
to section three thousand two of the public health law and who is
responsible for the administration or supervision of initial emergency
medical care and transportation of sick or injured persons and who
performs such services without the receipt or expectation of monetary
compensation.
2. “volunteer ambulance service” shall mean a registered or certified
volunteer ambulance service as defined in section three thousand four of
the public health law.
3. “emergency ambulance service vehicle” shall mean a vehicle which is
an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an
ambulance service as defined in section three thousand one of the public
health law and used for the purpose of transporting emergency medical
personnel and equipment to sick or injured persons and which is
transporting a certified first responder.
4. “certified first responder” shall mean an individual who meets the
minimum requirements established by regulations pursuant to section
three thousand two of the public health law and who is responsible for
administration of initial life saving care of sick and injured persons.
b. The commissioner shall issue an annual on-street parking permit for
a vehicle authorized by a volunteer ambulance service to operate as an
emergency ambulance service vehicle. The volunteer ambulance service
shall submit an application for each permit requested on such form as
the commissioner shall determine and shall certify that the permit is
necessary for the performance by a volunteer emergency medical
technician of his or her duties on behalf of that volunteer ambulance
service.
c. The volunteer ambulance service shall specify the requested
geographic territory for each permit, which may not exceed the primary
operating territory listed on the department of health and mental
hygiene ambulance service registration or certification pursuant to
section three thousand four of the public health law.
d. Such parking permit shall only be used for the purpose of parking a
specified emergency ambulance service vehicle where parking is
prohibited by sign or rule, and only while such vehicle is on standby
for use by a volunteer emergency medical technician to respond to
medical emergencies.
e. The license plate number of the vehicle and the name, address and
telephone number where the volunteer ambulance service can be reached
shall be written on the face side of the permit.
f. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, such parking permit
shall not authorize the parking of a motor vehicle in a bus stop, a
taxi-stand, within fifteen feet of a fire hydrant, a fire zone, a
driveway, a crosswalk, a no stopping zone, a no standing zone, or where
the vehicle would be double-parked.
g. Any misuse of such permit shall be sufficient cause for revocation
of said permit.
h. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no vehicle bearing an
annual on-street parking permit issued pursuant to this section may be
towed when such vehicle is being used in accordance with the purpose for
which such permit was issued, except in public safety emergencies to be
determined by the police department.”
Please note specifically the provisions of Paragraph d:
d. Such parking permit shall only be used for the purpose of parking a specified emergency ambulance service vehicle where parking is prohibited by sign or rule, and only while such vehicle is on standby for use by a volunteer emergency medical technician to respond to medical emergencies.
When the word “standby” is used, it does not mean 24/7/365. Few people in this world are always on standby. But, as I said before, if you believe I am in error, why not write the DOT Authorized Parking Bureau and ask them if you have the right to break the parking rules any time you wish?
You will note that thislaw requires the permit holder to be capable of rendering “initial life saving care of sick and injured persons.”
Health,
I have only a guess as to which organization the holders of those VAS plates might belong to. I am hoping one of them will join in and tell us why he parks as he does.
YeshivaRodefKesef,
Thank you for your post. I will take a closer look on Friday night after davening and see who is parked in front of the shuls.
The rest of your post suggests that another volunteer ambulance service is writing license plate sponsorship letters for, let’s say less than forthright reasons. This is scandalous. If true, why is this information being kept quiet?
What service does Bed-Stuy Volunteer Ambulance do?
Also, isn’t there very strict regulations in New York State on who may have lights and sirens? Even if someone bought a “membership” in some volunteer ambulance service, that itself doesn’t entitle them to have L&S – even if they have a VAS plate. So how do they have L&S?
The Litvishe Kiryas Yoelite -“Also, isn’t there very strict regulations in New York State on who may have lights and sirens? Even if someone bought a “membership” in some volunteer ambulance service, that itself doesn’t entitle them to have L&S – even if they have a VAS plate. So how do they have L&S?”
The people who buy these things just want to get away with illegal activity. They know that if they put L & S on their cars with VAS plates, that it’s a very long shot that they will be pulled over to see if they are actually responding to an emergency.
When the word “standby” is used, it does not mean 24/7/365. Few people in this world are always on standby.
I completely disagree. The fact that Hatzala members are on standby 24/7 should certainly fit into the law allowing them to be considered on standby 24/7.
BPM -“When the word “standby” is used, it does not mean 24/7/365. Few people in this world are always on standby. But, as I said before, if you believe I am in error, why not write the DOT Authorized Parking Bureau and ask them if you have the right to break the parking rules any time you wish?
Now I’m not an expert in law, but this a gray area. You could say “standby” doesn’t mean 24/7, but who says this is right? Hatzolah can hold they are on “standby” 24/7. The only way to know exact definitions is when a case like this goes to court and the Judge defines it one way or another. And then it has to go up the appeals process before you have case law.
It’s obvious that they are defining “standby” as 24/7.
And if you say a Judge would never define it that way, I know many examples where Courts have literally removed the basic translation of the law and put in their own meaning. They call this “Legislating from the Bench”. This is a big problem in this country – they give too much power to our Court system.
YeshivaRodefKesef -“Really? You know this how? You think or youre sure ?!?
You say youre sure, so I imagine you were there and checked each car and found a valid plaque and DOH sticker.
Ever heard of Dan l’kaf zechus, my friend?
Especially for those who drop whatever were doing when you need us?”
What are you – a Macher/Coordinator for Hatzolah? When s/o writes they are sure it doesn’t mean they are 100% sure, otherwise they would say that, just it’s most likely/probable.
And why would you get on the defensive, when I wasn’t attacking Hatzolah? I posted that I don’t know if it’s illegal or not. I just posted to BPM that the law could be acc. to Hatzolah’s interpretation. So for s/o to get on the defensive for no reason, it’s usually because they are feeling guilty. So what are you feeling guilty about – esp. if noone on Hatzolah does anything wrong?
“This is absolutely, completely, totally incorrect.
The Department of Transportation permit alows illegal parking only while responding to an emergency. This has been discussed before in the Coffee Room with someone citing the exact regulations. If you have any doubt, however, check with the the DOT Authorized Parking and Permits Bureau.
VAS members do not get free, unrestricted parking 24/7/365. They have this privilege only while actually responding to an emergency. I would be worried about the judgment of someone who actually believes this nonsense.”
BORO PARK NONSENSE
You are wrong stop saying nonsense. If you have a vendetta against hatzolah thats fine- next time you have a heart attack call 911 and wait the 20 min. see what i or anyone else cares.
The DOT permit gives the member to park illegally SO LONG AS THEY ARE “AVAILABLE” as i clearly said in my post. And was written very clearly in the DOT laws quoted.
This discussion is petty and babyish, all those who have issues with hatzolah so be it, dont call them when you have an emergency. If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN???? so just pretend that is the case and grow up.
@HEALTH – seriously? that is your response? instead of assuming i am an idiot why dont you assume i am not and the radio was not on TOO loud. As far as the ear piece it is not so simple to take in and out on shabbbos or yom tov. It is also to many people uncomfortable. My point was is and always will be, everyone sings a very different tune when they have an emergency.
a member has a lot to loose and little to gain when using his L&S in an unauthorized manner.
2scents: You repeated this a few times. Yet, in reality, there is little risk for a member to flash his L&S for 15 seconds (during no emergency) in order to pass a traffic holdup when he is late for work or is just impatient. The likelihood of anything happening, other than beating traffic, is extremely small.
A bunch of freakin ingrates we have here… This discussion is petty and babyish, all those who have issues with hatzolah so be it, dont call them when you have an emergency. If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN????
jackness: Based on your comments here it is clear you are an arrogant demanding member who is a disgrace to Hatzala and ought to be relived from duty.
Health,
Not that it is relevant who I am, but I am a Hatzolah member and I will not standby while you attack other members or the organization.
You clearly said that you “were sure” those parking illegally were H-Members. When one says thay are “sure” it means that they have no doubt otherwise. That is what I questioned.
If you are just voicing your opinion, then you ought to learn to be “dan L’kaf zechus”, and you should cosider the ramifications of loshon-hora and motzi-shem-ra on a rabim before posting.
Reading your posts (to others and myself) vs mine, the average person will likely conclude that you are the one that is both defensive and offensive while I am calm. I will not speculate as to what your issues and agenda might be, but I suspect that one exists.
Please don’t expect me to respond to your rants again, I am not looking to get into a match with you.
BPM,
I don’t think this is about members parking in front of shuls. Memebrs respond from shul and their vehicles and equipment are needed closeby.
This is about non-memebers who violate the law and put the public in danger by driving reclessley, with unauthorized L&S, and block pumps.
This issue is compounded by those chayas having VAS plates; the public and Police assume that it is Hatzolah, they get away with their actions, and Hatzolah gets a bad rap due to this incorrect assumption.
You are correct, that these plates are obtained through another volunteer ambulance service by giving out letters for less than forthright reasons as you put it.
I understand that the main culprit is Bed-Stuy Vol Ambulance, and this is “public knowledge” within “the macher, and wanna-be circles” so I don’t think that is really being kept quiet.
If they are licensed as a Vol Amb Svce, they do have the right, technically, to issue letters to their “members”.
I agree that this is scandalous, but I am not sure what can be done besides local Police enforcement by actually following these cars to see where they are going. I have been followed while responding, and I no issue with it. Let PD do it more often so they can see we are legit and at the same time the chayas will hopefully get weeded out.
Perhaps an audit of Bed Stuy by the DOH and DMV might revoke their license, and DMV can recall and not renew all those plates. Not sure however if this is a top agenda for the State.
jackness -“HEALTH – seriously? that is your response? instead of assuming i am an idiot why dont you assume i am not and the radio was not on TOO loud. As far as the ear piece it is not so simple to take in and out on shabbbos or yom tov. It is also to many people uncomfortable. My point was is and always will be, everyone sings a very different tune when they have an emergency.”
Look I posted before I don’t like judging up cases without hearing the other side. But obviously this person who complained thought the guy’s radio was on too loud. Whether it was or wasn’t, there is no way for me to know. If you were there – what should have happenned was that you should have asked others standing there what their opinion was. Instead right away you jumped to this guy’s defense. This was your bias at play.
If others would have said -Yea, it’s too loud -then the member who is hard of hearing should wear an ear piece in Shul, whether it’s uncomfortable or not. If the others there would have said -No, it’s not too loud -then your defense was warranted.
As far as Shabbos, he can use two radios -one for home & one for Shul with the ear piece – if the guy has the actual need to have his radio on very loud.
“My point was is and always will be, everyone sings a very different tune when they have an emergency.”
This could be, but the point of this topic in the CR is that Vollys for Ambulance Services don’t have the right to abuse others. The abuse could be using L & S when not authorized, parking illegally when not available to respond, having relatives who are not responders parking illegally, and now that you mentioned it – blaring your radio when it disturbs others.
While all these things probably are not too common, they do occur.
jackness,
Or do you believe that asking a question or [gasp]
Before I get to the rest of your diatribe, it seems quite clear that if you belong to a volunteer ambulance service, you certainly do not handle their public relations.
If you have a vendetta against hatzolah thats fine- next time you have a heart attack call 911 and wait the 20 min. see what i or anyone else cares.
The DOT permit gives the member to park illegally SO LONG AS THEY ARE “AVAILABLE” as i clearly said in my post. And was written very clearly in the DOT laws quoted.
If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN????
Thanks for the question. What I would say would be almost the same thing I would say to similar questions such as:
So, If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN????
. . . just pretend that is the case and grow up.
Thanks but I would prefer to pretend I am engaging someone with manners.
I am confident your organization has access to legal advice. I suggest you get some.
Thank G-d, I am extremely confident that this is not the official policy of any organization in my neighborhood.
YeshivaRodefKesef -“Not that it is relevant who I am, but I am a Hatzolah member and I will not standby while you attack other members or the organization.”
Please explain to me in plain English how I was “Attacking” Hatzolah.
“You clearly said that you “were sure” those parking illegally were H-Members. When one says thay are “sure” it means that they have no doubt otherwise. That is what I questioned.”
Yes, I’m still pretty sure. We’ll wait for BPM to look at the cars and see if they are Hatzolah or not.
You seem to suffer from some sort of paranoia because you consider my posts as an attack. I had just posted to BPM that I’m quite confident the cars parked there are Hatzolah. Since you didn’t actually read my whole post before you responded, you assumed that I agreed that they were illegally parked. I actually posted that I wasn’t sure if it was legal for them to park there or not. So since I wasn’t sure if these cars were doing anything wrong, just was sure that the cars were Hatzolah, where did you find an Attack on Hatzolah?
It seems that your rant towards me was baseless. So your defense is really an offense because you think noone has the right to comment on Your ambulance service, just others (eg. Bed -Stuy).
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